Comments

  1. Bob R says

    The music over powers and drowns out the dialog, it’s difficult to hear what the people are saying. Nice effort, but I found it annoying because of the loud beat and poor acoustics.

  2. Rick says

    The fact that all the men in this piece are effeminate defeats the purpose of any such exercise. You see, it really is not about religion or “morality” for most people (as they suggest)–it is instead about masculinity and the lack thereof in the behavior of so many gay men…..and until gay men, themselves, get that, and decide that they are men rather than something else–and act like it–we will be quite limited in how much acceptance there will be for homosexuality.

    Being attracted to someone of the same sex SHOULD be simple–and is, in fact, entirely compatible with masculinity (and should indeed be an expression of it)…..but gay men such as these have clouded the water by confusing their sexuality with gender-identity issues and made it complicated when it does not have to be.

    I realize that most have not done so entirely consciously, but their behavior is still learned and can be unlearned and needs to be if we are to achieve real progress (in addition to happiness amongst ourselves).

  3. Frank Butterfield says

    I like both videos visually but didn’t like the feel that the anger in the first one brought out. I felt like that video is trying to hit me over the head with its statement. That may also be because of the music and/or sound equalization. Even if the music came down a notch or two, that would really help.

    Meanwhile…

    @Rick — Your comment reads like it was lifted from a circa 1966 issue of One, the magazine of The Mattachine Society. Seriously.

  4. Rick says

    @Frank Butterfield Yeah, good observation. And to me that demonstrates how terribly off-track the gay movement has gotten–from the original purpose of educating people about homosexuality and eradicating homophobia….to a misguided and ultimately futile attempt to gain acceptance for effeminacy and general non-conformity of any kind.

    Look, you can all make all the snide remarks among yourselves that you want to, but the reality is that anybody viewing that video will simply have all their stereotypes about gay men being lisping, limp-wristed sissies reinforced…….and those stereotypical behaviors are precisely what people don’t like about us, especially men, because they are asthetically repulsive and totally unnatural and make a mockery out of masculinity.

    And that point is just underscored by the fact that gay men, themselves, find them unattractive, as well.

  5. Frank Butterfield says

    @Rick — I’m personally not interested in whether someone likes me (or any gay person). Societal acceptance is nice but it’s not really the brass ring. All I’m interested in is having the same rights as everyone else. And I’m interested in that being universally inclusive. Like me, don’t like me, doesn’t matter. Apply the law equally and indifferently and we’ll be just fine.

  6. Dan says

    Needs some audio editing. Another thing homosexuality is not, is exclusively 21-29 year olds who have peak hearing abilities. Some of us are older. Try re-mixing so that the speakers who spoke too fast are not drowned out by the music.
    Thanks

  7. sara says

    A good message but a little long maybe. Also @Rick–I think you’re delusional and (probably) hopelessly bigoted. Who are you exactly, that think it’s your right to tell people they need to conform to your idea of masculinity? In the eyes of the gay opposition movement, there’s no distinction between feminine acting or straight acting, they oppose ALL of you.

    The opposition to homosexuality clearly uses a biblical argument in most cases & their opposition is to the love & the sexual activities of gay men & lesbian women & is not dependent on how ‘effeminate’ someone is. Your rights as US citizens does not rely on how you dress, how you talk & how you walk.

  8. Rick says

    @Taylor You know I am tired of playing games, so here is an academic study that demonstrates what we all know from our own personal experience to be the case…..

    http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/femiphobia.htm

    A key excerpt:

    “What we learned suggested that The Birdcage is indeed fiction. When advertisers requested either masculine or feminine characteristics in a partner, they requested masculine traits 96 percent of the time. Furthermore, when they described themselves as masculine or feminine, it was masculine 98 percent of the time. Both what gay men seek and how they represent themselves suggest that they are massively biased in favor of masculinity. Or is it a bias against femininity? In all 72 ads in which an advertiser was explicit about what kind of gender-related trait he did not want, it was a feminine trait; “no femmes” was the most common request”

    @Frank Butterfield Laws only matter if people believe in the spirit of them–and over the long run, you cannot force most of the population to do things they don’t want to do. And the entire purpose of videos like this is to get straight people to change their attitudes. Moreover, if they changed their attitudes, we would not need any laws. But those attitudes will not change until effeminacy is largely eradicated from gay male culture.

  9. Hollywood, CA says

    Fantastic. Now, please upload again without the horrible background music. It’s so loud that I can’t hear what you’re saying, and it’s not good. It should compliment your words so that this message can reach the most people. But excellent job on the content!

  10. IAN F says

    I liked the second one’s message for both our opponents and our own community. We often dismiss the gays who don’t fit our idea of who we want to represent us and miss the important role they play.

    I wish it could have been longer to include some more great square pegs such as John Waters, Freddie Mercury, Oscar Wilde, Rob Halford, Boy George, Adam Lambert, kd lang…and many more.

  11. nosh says

    “Effiminate” or not, self-hating homophobe or not, I believe Rick as a point. They did not strike me as having mass appeal. Cover girl doesn’t choose people who are not rather unusually attractive, and those people were…not. People respect strength and beauty. We need middle of the bell curve people to be paragons in their own community for our message, but when we want people to watch a video, the ambassadors for us should be the ones with the most mass appeal. It is just common sense. Moreover, the whole tone comes off as so preachy and militant. Who wants to watch a black power video?

  12. Jcrayst says

    It looks like homosexuality is also v-neck t-shirts. I appreciate the message, but I did not see myself here. A dumpy middle aged man with a lousy haircut. Diversify the images, please.

  13. Steverino says

    Nice message with good intentions, but it comes across as a bit too school-marmy. I think a similar video with a more hopeful tone and soundtrack would reach more people.

    Also, too many of the shots made me feel like I’m in a bathroom. I’d suggest either going for welcoming settings (living room couches, someone’s bedroom, etc.) or just go for a white/neutral background throughout.

  14. buster says

    Fighting yesterday’s battles today.

    The people who had ignorant misunderstanding about homosexuality and could be educated with a tv commercial came around many years ago. Today’s bigots are nurtured from childhood, fed by their churches and pundits, have personal issues that leave them over-reliant on an us. v. them way of approaching the world and are not gonna change their minds ’cause a bunch of Chelsea queens are yelling in their faces.

    Making the commercial too loud, too long and too stereotypical doesn’t help.

  15. vince says

    was that Hilary Clinton in the beginning? the eff has she done for us?

    and really? you slow the video down and give Gaga a spotlight, and immediately have a blurry shot of Harvey Milk, just in passing?

    i was pleased he included GLBT people of color. but jesus.

    no thank you.

  16. scotsyank says

    Honestly, I despair.
    Some of you have valid points, and some of you have idiot points of view. And some of the ageist opinions are just cruel and ignorant.
    Men only slightly older than you lost every friend they ever had. SLIGHTLY.

  17. Jon says

    That first video is awful. If you want to convince someone of something, it’s generally not a good idea to set your message to aggressively loud thumping music, while you cattily deliver rapid-fire barely comprehensible blatherings in an extremely condescending tone; people tend not to respond well to messages that imply that they’re stupid and that you are full of contempt for them. Nice try, though. Slow it down, lose the ‘tude and the bathhouse music and you may have something.

  18. Zlick says

    I’m pretty sure the first video is not meant to persuade anyone. It seems like an angry tirade, borne of frustration – and I’m sure the people who put time and effort into it know full well how it comes off. As a form of expression, it’s fine. Oh yeah, there are audio problems, but that’s besides the point of what they were trying to do. Seems just like a Get It Off My Chest kinda thing, and perhaps the V-necks made access to chest-escape a bit easier, too. 😉

  19. Jon says

    Just watched the second one. Also a nice try, but the ending leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The Lady Gaga vignette is noticeably longer than the others and implies that she’s as important to our movement as Harvey Milk was. I personally find that sort of offensive and rather telling about the mindset of this aspiring filmmaker. And again, what’s with the bitchy tone of voice? After the last guy says “Think different” you can almost see him rolling his eyes and turning his nose up in disgust at you. He reminds me of disgruntled male Starbucks barista who’s annoyed that you interrupted his texting by daring to order a coffee.

  20. says

    @Rick: You hate the thing you fear others see in you. We all see the evidence of the flaming sissy boy you are and we really don’t care, so you can stop trying to defeat your personal demon (who is loads more fun than the character you’re unsuccessfully portraying).

  21. Ken says

    Liked the video. Did not find the guys overly effeminate. Yeah, maybe would have picked them out as gay if I saw them on the street, but so what. Thought they were good looking and the message came across well. The music was annoying though.

  22. Drift2 says

    Message …? politics …? Hang on let me just stop drooling over that guy with the shaved head thick eye brows and puppy eyes …

    Face it, this video is for a teen and college age audience. Just accept that you’re not teen or college age and you don’t share the aesthetic. It looks and sounds fine to others. Brash and forthright is what young people are about – and good for them. Why stifle it with pretentious cries of “diversity” and “less anger” and all that adult overthink?

  23. johnny says

    For me, the first video offers up a youth-only, mostly white, city-dwelling gay stereotype. Where is our vast diversity?: old, middle age, young, rich, poor, city, country, pretty, ugly, all races, all genders, etc.

    Until we get the “other side” to see that we’re everyone they can imagine and that we’ve always been, they’re going to keep thinking it’s ONLY Adam and Steve, those two loud-music-loving white guys living in a condo downtown that are trying to shove their “lifestyle” down their throats.

    Where is the video that shows mechanics, cowboys, waiters, executives, gardeners, doctors, mailmen, dancers, roofers, clergy, truck drivers, florists, dentists, brick layers, retirees, war veterans and on and on?

    Because that’s my personal experience of gay people where I live. They run the gamut instead of occupying the horribly tiny demographic that is shown in that video.

    Sadly, I can’t even relate to it and I’m gay!

  24. jrocket says

    Funny, but I wasn’t concerned at all about the looks or “manliness” of these folks. I was just glad to see them saying things my generation had no opportunity to express in the ’60’s. I was coming out when the CBS show was shown about “the homosexuals.” I remember mob guys in bars stopping men from kissing, and when two men couldn’t dance to anything slow together. So good for them for at least putting something out there.

  25. AJJANTHONY says

    @Rick – First off, with the exception of one or two guys in this video I hardly found them all to be effeminate. I thought it was a fairly decent representation of who we are – butch, femme, male, female etc. You need to deal with the fact that THERE ARE plenty of gay guys who are femme and some who are not. That is the reality. To have a video of all football players would be ridiculous and untrue. Just like there are plenty of straight guys that act femme. Its reality. Deal.

  26. TJ says

    Maybe the reason the video didn’t show cowboys, executives, waiters, etc. is because they used people available and weren’t able on their budget to seek out the “perfect” representatives to make all of those mean people like us?

    I had no problem with it. It’s one vision. The target may be a younger audience; maybe even a bit of preaching to the choir going on. But I appreciate the frustration expressed.

    As for the extremely tired “not masculine” meme – seriously, go firetruck yourselves. Do you really think that being “masculine” is what it takes to make people okay with gay? What part of “abomination” do you not understand? What part of “well, he’s okay, but the rest, ick” makes you feel accepted? It’s not the “kind” of gay, it’s the gay. Anyone read the troll who posted on the Matt Bomer thread who talked about carrots in the anus and how he’d never watch the show again? Is Matt Bomer not masculine, and hot to boot? Guess what, that comment about not watching the show again is not an isolated one on other websites.

    Have you read comments on other blogs about Ellen DeGeneres, where people actually support boycotting JCP? How innocuous, family friendly, and wholesome can you be and still be accepted while being gay? For some people, never.

    If you spend your life with your hat in your hand, begging for crumbs, that’s likely all you’ll get.

  27. Randy says

    I found the first video to be unnecessarily angry. Who is going to watch it, and be convinced they are wrong? They just get shouted at.

    I liked the second video better.

  28. Michael says

    Wow, talk about a bunch of whiny ass little bitches. If we were to by these comments one would think homosexuality is a bunch of tiresome queens who will take something good and find fault with it.

    The video was excellent.

  29. nikko says

    The first effeminate defensive queen in the first video reinforced all the “funny” or effeminate gay male stereotypes!!! RICK is right on much of the time. I noticed it right away, and I have to admit, it’s a turnoff. I still like the videos, but stereotypes and generlizations exist for a reason: there’s truth to them. I cringe when I hear that nasal effeminate voice and behaviour.

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  31. mld says

    though i support their message, i hope they use every last kickstarter dollar to go to film school. in the age of everyone-can-get iMovie, this poor quality editing is absolutely unacceptable. its bad bad bad

  32. Paul R says

    I didn’t hear any overly loud music. Of course, I speak too quickly and prefer the same.

    I cannot believe that people are still responding to Rick/Jason, who is clearly the worst thing about this site. He’s the new Tank. For all I know, he is Tank.

  33. Mark says

    I think Nikko’s comment using the word “defensive” is the key to many of the complaints about the video. We won’t listen to someone when we have the sense that they may inappropriately place their anger on us. We tend to run away from those whose anger is on the surface and is just waiting for a target. This was the total read from one of the main talking heads. I totally did not trust his ability to control or even direct his anger – so I put my hand over the video when he appeared. There are “effeminate” people that would not have generated complaints had they delivered his lines.

  34. KMC says

    Great piece, but I agree with others, knock off the background music and would like to see a more consistent background and make the piece more conversational and approachable. Keep up the good work!

  35. Mark says

    I am guessing the first guy is the one who made the first video. He is distractngly angry and by the end of the video he is almost chicken-necking. I kept waiting for the angry z-snap and a GURRRRRRL!

    Nice concept, but I think the feedback here valuable for a more polished and effective version.

  36. Paul in Charleston says

    To all the critics who gave a thumbs down please go back and re-read the printed words where it says “Ryan James Yezak has posted two more clips in support of the documentary he’s working on…” do you need to have the last four words spelled out? The is not a finished project and perhaps you also missed the appeal for help in getting the documentary finished?
    @Rick, some of your statements about queens seem to be lifted verbatim from the Rick Santorum speech book. You think it is a “learned behavior ” that can be unlearned? Did you confer with Marcus Bachman about this? Yeah, I get it, you hate queens and are embarrassed by us, but perhaps you have forgotten who started the fight at Stonewall? And in the last 42 years little has changed in this regard, queens are STILL leading the pack, is it because you are afraid that your “pass as straight” cover will be blown? That’s how it looks to me, butch guys are just too damn fearful of what straight people might think of them so you skulk in the background complaining. I’m tired of seeing only queens too, but for very different reasons. I’m tired of frightened little butch boys letting queens take all the crap while you do nothing. If you are such a man step up to the front, we’d be happy to fall back on our fainting couches to drink pink martinis and let manly men such as yourself do all the dirty work. In this day and age everybody with a phone can make a video and post it where the world can see it. The next time you piss and moan about queens being too visible,please include the url where YOUR video can be seen.

  37. Rin says

    @Rick,

    you are so wrong. In fact, you are as wrong about what “straight” men think as black people are about what white people think. Every single gay white person posting here knows that white people who are not overtly racists from time to time will pull some crap where they say in hushed tones: Black people…. Oh, it may begin with…”I have not problem with blacks, but…”

    Straight guys aren’t going to tell a gay guy sporting a masculine attitude what they don’t like about gay dudes. You are clueless if you think that straight dudes prefer your company over that of a drag queen. In fact, I’ve heard straight guys says…Wow, that drag queen is hot. They may tell you what you want to hear because it makes you feel better, just as white dudes tell black guys what they want to hear, but the fact is…straight guys who aren’t jerks like “femmy” and “masculine” gays the exact same and the ones that don’t like gays, dislike them equally.

    Homosexuality is a minority preference due to evolution. It is neither wrong nor right because those are moralistic terms. Nature requires procreation which is why we have pheromones and other methods of forcing opposite sex attraction. In fact, the scent that women put off while ovulating is attractive to straight men even though no one could say that they smell it.

    Men who are attracted to men are also attracted to the male’s scent, thus proving that Nature created/provided this attraction in these men. Straight male attraction has NOTHING to do with whether or not a gay man has “effeminate” qualities. Gay or straight male scents and appearances, will be attractive to men who prefer men and women–even though he’s gay. Heck, even though 1) I’ve never seen TJ, and 2) TJs gay and married I still imagine in my head that he’s hot. I can’t help being straight so I am more attracted to NPH than I am to Megan Fox.

    To the point, Ellen is rather “masculine acting”. I don’t prefer her to Portia because Portia has long hair and acts more girlie. I also would rather sleep with RPDR S2 contestant David (aka “Raven”) than Ellen because he’s a dude.

    You cannot blame effeminate men for the fact that straight men’s biggest problems (and I know because I argue with them all the time on gay rights) is men who “bend over” or “suck cock” of other men. As there is no way to have sex without someone doing one of those things… it is unavoidable.

    IF you could eavesdrop on a conversation you would realize this. it is all about your masculine misogyny and how women (“receivers”) are inferior so I would imagine this would “take” in your head.

    The science is on the side of evolution and all the pottery fragments in the world with someone’s spin on them won’t change that. You simply must stop blaming other gay men for the prejudice and cultural disdain of straight men.

    It is not the clothing or the mannerisms. Think it if it makes you sleep better at night, but straight guys don’t in private conversations dislike effeminate queens more than masculine gays. Its not like straight guys are hanging out with leathermen.

    And the straight guys that don’t care…don’t care. They are mature enough to like people regardless of how they act because they’re not total insecure dweebs. And…praise the Lord…there are more and more of these men because they are realizing that gay men aren’t all waiting in public restrooms to accost them, that gay men have kids, families, drink beer, and like rock music.

    Let people be who they are and you be who you are.

  38. Mark says

    I agree with you Paul–and sometimes Rick gets a bit bombastic with his prescriptive concepts of masculinity that oten border on homophobic.

    However, that said, the whole concept of the first video and its message is to illustrate contrasts between stereotypical, preconceived notions and the reality of the diversity found among gay people.

    Unfortunately many of things pointed out in the comments here undermine that.

    I checked out the video blog for Ryan James Yezak and he is in fact the first guy in the first vid who progressively gets more angry and “fierce” as the video progresses. If the video had gone on any longer I expected to see him voguing. This cliche tone, demeanor and attitude do little to help persuade people what being gay is “not”. This is not to say people who are stereotypically gay are bad or wrong–but its akin to making a case in court that your client is innocent while presenting evidence that demonstrates he or she is more than likely guilty as charged.

  39. Rick says

    @TJ Tell me, TJ, when you were being bullied and beat up in your youth, do you really believe the motivation on the part of those doing the bullying was that they believed your being gay was “immoral”? Or did they beat you up because you were a big ole sissy? Come on, you know the answer. You also know that the religious arguments put forth are just a ruse to cover up the true motives of homophobes–just as the “state’s rights” argument was a ruse to cover up the true motives of the racists who opposed civil rights.

    Look at the gay men who have been accepted into the mainstream (and this is where your point gets punctured, RIN)–and you will find that they virtually all have masculine demeanors……do you think it is an accident that Don Lemon, Anderson Cooper, Tom Roberts, and Shep Smith do not lisp or speak with a “gay voice”? Do you think they would ever have gotten to where they are if they did? Do you think Rock Hudson or Cary Grant would have? Again, you know the answer.

    As for your points RIN, some are just wrong–there is no hard and fast dividing line between men who are “homosexual” and those who are not…..in fact, I would venture to guess that many of those “straight” men you have talked to have at the very least gotten a blow job from another guy at some point in their lives…..and it had nothing to do with “scent” or “evolution.” And the fact that you are wrong is supported by all the science, from Freud and Kinsey on down.

    I really think that you, as a woman, are threatened by the idea of men being freed from their sexual and emotional dependence on women and therefore–like a lot of straight women who “support” gay men–want the black/white gay/straight continuum to continue, with gay men continuing to be the wards of women that oppression (and alienation from straight men) has made so many of them into.

    But what you don’t see is that men are changing–ironically, it is “straight” men who are tearing down the barriers and making it more acceptable for men to be emotionally and sexually freer with each other–gay men, who should be leading the way, as lesbians often did with feminism, are instead acting more as obstacles to progress than catalysts of it by clinging to the old paradigms…..many of them just cannot get it through their thick heads that the way to progress and to finding common cause with other men and a common identity with them (and full acceptance by them) is to embrace masculine values rather than to attempt to undermine them (which approach is doomed to failure).

    Equally ironically is that some gay men continue to defend effeminate behavior, even though, as the study I linked demonstrated and we all know, they, themselves, find it unappealing.

    Trust me, if gay men made a conscious effort to eradicate effeminacy from gay culture, it would cause other men to respect them…..and accelerate the changes that “straight” men have already set into motion……but perhaps more importantly, it would cause them to like themselves and each other more….which would lead to more and healthier long-term relationships and less anti-social behavior like drug abuse, alcoholism, and excessive promiscuity.

    The choice is ours–we just have to make the right one.

  40. TJ says

    I guess we all have different “sensitivities” re: “effeminate.” No one in that first video, to me, “read” as “oh my god nancy” effeminate, or “stereotypical.” Perhaps I’m not hyper aware or over concerned, because I’m accepting of difference. Perhaps I’m not worried about the negative halo effect of someone who is out and burning brightly because I am responsible for sending out my own light.

    But just for the sake of argument. Suppose some “oh my god nancy boy” makes a video, stating that he is not dirt on the bottom of anyone’s shoe. Suppose he states that as a fellow human being, he deserves life, liberty, and the opportunity to pursue happiness as he defines it, unhindered by prejudice and ignorance. Who are you going to side with? Those who fundamentally get the heebie geebies at the mere thought of same-sex attraction, much less same-sex sexual activity? Or the guy who may not look like you and may not represent you, but like you, inherently deserves respect?

    Here’s to those that wish me (us) well. All the rest can go to hell.

  41. TJ says

    For those who were turned off by the anger (I wasn’t, because I see this as one person’s vision that doesn’t have to be mine, but whatever): If this is a work in progress, and the creator would appreciate feedback, and would like to reach a wider audience, perhaps he will read your comments and take heed. If you feel strongly about it, it seems tracking the creator down isn’t too difficult. Let him know directly.

  42. TJ says

    RIN – thanks! You “read” as hot to me, too! ;>)

    One small correction. Although we will celebrate 25 monogamous years together this summer, my partner and I are not married. The window for marriage here in CA was rather narrow, and my partner didn’t want to risk having something so important taken away (as pRick Santorum would be more than happy to do, protector of marriage that he is). He is someone who has lost jobs and been denied opportunity in the past; I appreciated his refusal to subject himself to the approval or disapproval of any institution. But f we get it (reliably) back as an option (crosses fingers)…

  43. TJ says

    RICK – I sorta regret ever having exposed my history before you, because you only see what you want to see. Pearls before swine and all that. You just don’t “get” that homophobia or femmaphobia are what deserve to be shunned and called out, not homosexuality or effemininity.

    Still an idiot.

  44. says

    Speak for yourself, Rick.

    The dude with the beard, the guy with the blue lasers for eyes and the guy with the buzzed hair and chin patch… All hot.

    I’d stage a fourgy with those guys any day.

  45. Mark says

    Not caring what mainstream society thinks kind of undercuts the point of the video, doesn’t it?

    That is the conflicting message here from the maker of this video: homosexuality is not this, but you can tell from my behavior in the video that I am.”

    He is also only 23 and lives in WeHo. That speaks volumes.

  46. Jayson says

    DAMN you are right that dude is Bitchy Queen Personified. Trying to be the poster “boi” for challenging gay stereotypes by hitting me with your purse.

    Thanks for playing, Nellie.

  47. anon says

    The most ardent homophobes seem, based on small scale studies, to be the mostly likely str8 males to be aroused by gay porn. Clearly they are thinking about it so often that it starts to turn them on in some way. More studies need to be done on these attitudes.

  48. says

    first, ignore the miserable trolls: if these wimpy cowards actually believed the B.S. that they keep saying they’d post videos of THEMSELVES showing what “strong masculine gay male role models they are.”

    they don’t do that, though. wanna know why? because they’re not strong masculine empowered gay male role models. they’re grown-adult cowards who hate the type of gay men that they had to “not be” in order for their family to tolerate them.

    it’s textbook.

    So, to anyone who sits bitterly complaining that this video
    “isnt’ doing it right” or “is sending the wrong message” – what’s stopping YOU from posting a video where you put your face to the camera, stand up to be counted, and represent YOURSELVES as the gay men you want to be, or be seen as?

    you cant complain that someone else with more courage, integrity and BALLS is representing themselves in a way that you’re too insecure to do.

    word.

  49. Jay says

    The “homosexuality is not” video was bad, bad, bad. And I mean that in the worst possible way. The music was too loud and drowned out some of the comments. The use of quick two second clips and multiple speakers diluted the message and added up to less than the sum of its herky, jerky parts. Nice try but no cigar to the film maker

  50. Gregv says

    @Rin: It is VERY possible to have sex without either “bending over or sucking someone’s cock.”.
    Homophobes (including the ones you talk to) seem to always assume they know what every same-sex couple does behind closed doors. In reality, they don’t have a clue.
    I sometimes think the homophobe is projecting his OWN male-male fantasy (which he feels obsessed with and angry at himself for having) and assumes that since that’s what he obsessed over wanting to do with a man, then that’s what all gay people are doing.
    A lot of gay couples have never had anal sex (and if they do, one or both may well NOT be bent over in the style depicted on Fred Phelps’ hateful signs) and a lot find other things to do besides sucking the other guy off.
    Besides that, a few gay couples never have sex (I’ve known such an elderly pair) and millions of single gay people are virgins or currently celibate.
    When a homophobe attacks a gay person, it is almost NEVER because he knows his sexual history and is offended by some sexual position.
    A lot of these gay kids getting bullied in high school have never had sex with anyone.

  51. Markt says

    Wow – I love how this video sparked such controversy. The comments have been more revealing about what homosexuality is than the video. What articulate men and women we are. When you add it up though, it sounds like we all have to come to terms with both our feminine and masculine sides. I guess very few of us have developed a complete vision, showing exactly how we can fit into this hetero-dominant world; – now that it just may find enough heart to allow us admission if not full acceptance.

  52. GeorgeM says

    I don’t know about anyone else but I really want to know more about Rick.
    I’m thinking he’s in his late 40’s ripped, oozing testosterone, can plow the lower 40 by hand and a card holding republican

    No Really Rick, we hear your sh-t all the time. Give us a little bit
    You have the right to think that will advance gay rights, I however think you’re wrong. It’s the idea we’re gay that people don’t like. Doesn’t matter what kind, we’re gay that’s enough for them. Or you could actually work to make things better, but you don’t because someone like you wouldn’t work with a group of people who you felt were the root cause of the problem. Let’s face it, you’re going to find a lot of these people on the front line, how about you? I’m saying no

  53. says

    to every person who has commented on here negatively about “stereotypes” or “queens” or “that’s not the kind of gay *I* am” rhetoric….

    …well….um….. what are you waiting for?

    post a video. if you dont have video capabilities take some still photos of yourself, and your non-typical life or lifestyle or manner. and include some writing about your life, and your personal experiences.

    or, borrow a camera from a friend. make a video. make a video where you show everything that you feel this young man didn’t show.

    you can’t complain that he didn’t represent “you” when you have no intention whatsoever of doing the exact same thing he did and REPRESENT YOURSELF.

    for real.

    post a video. post the URL or link here.

    that way you stop complaining that ‘there aren’t enough masculine gay cowboy construction worker videos on the internet’ because you’ll have made one.

    so get on it. or STFU.

  54. anony6 says

    Nice video! I do not think it was too preachy or militant as some commentators have suggested. Keep in mind who this video is targeting. It is not targeting pro gay individuals. It is primarily targeting anti-gay individuals who quite frankly need to have a strong message thrown in their face, just like how their anti-gay laws are thrown in our faces.

    Will this video alone change their minds and hearts, likely no…but it stands as a strong contrast to the homophobia they have internalized. It takes a multitude of influences to overcome prejudice…with one of these influences being strong counterpoints against what their prejudices tells them about gays.

    I support this video. It cannot be the only step to get what we want (changed hearts and minds, and more importantly changed laws IMO), but it is a needed step.

  55. Markt says

    Anony6 – I like your comment. I think the video has produced so many comments because others agree it is on the right track and very close to being a good product. So, although the comments focus on the negative, the subtext is: “great work now just move two steps closer.”

  56. Rin says

    @Rick,

    **I came back to read what TJ said to me– :) **

    You read what you want in everyone’s posts. I specifically said that men who are attracted to men, ie gay or bisexual. If a man receives a blowjob from another man he is bisexual, meaning he likes BOTH sexes. There are women who are part-time bisexuals, too. Women will have sex with other women even if they prefer men…hey, if its 2 am and the bars are closed…waddayah gonna do? Then there are women who just…would rather eat a brownie than a muffin.

    The straight men I know are straight. The gay men I know are gay. The bisexual men I know like both. How am I not being clear in acknowledging this? Attraction is both complex and simple. Like I said, men who prefer women will like both straight and lesbian women. Men who prefer men will like both gay and straight men. It is a natural, instinctive, and YES hormonal thing that incorporates sight and scent. Good looking is good looking whether or not the person “acts” the way you would prefer them to act.

    Take for example Megan Fox. Have you heard her speak? Dumber than a box of rocks. Not anyone you would want to have an in depth conversation with, but men like her anyway. Did you see that RPDR epi with the straight male jocks and the drag queens? The dudes found this effeminate, women-dressing dudes HOT because of their physical appearance.

    By your standards they should have been sickened by them, and yet they weren’t. I have straight up heard dudes say that they would turn the lights out and “do” Tatiana.

    You found some bisexual, but female leaning dude that did you wrong and we are ALL sorry about it. It doesn’t make women or femmy gay men evil because of it. That same dude that gave you the night of your life might have just as easily had the same sense of attraction to lil Kiwi who claims to be more feminine.

    The fact is that the ONLY objections I hear from straight men about gay men are: 1) immorality (yes, TJ is right) and 2) the fact that they receive. When it comes to the latter…they look down on men who receive for another man, perceive them as weaker.

    So, if you’re giving them a BJ as you put it, it doesn’t mean they respect you hun. They don’t respect women who give oral either, come to think of it.

    Hmmm. **pauses as she thinks about looking into the phenomenon**

    You need to get over this dude, get over the crap your dad said to you and just quit blaming the rest of the world. Obvious to you or not, you come off as a bitter whiner (I won’t say queen). There isn’t one person here besides your alter Jason that wouldn’t agree.

    If it is that obvious that something has hurt you deeply don’t you think you should explore it?

    I would bet $5000 that if you were really struggling with hurt over that stupid bi/straight guy that hurt you or what went on with your dad, TJ would give up the argument to talk to you and try to understand.

    Even though you obviously don’t like women, I would try to understand, too, because guess what? Even though you don’t think you and I have anything in common…we do. We’ve both been on the receiving end of men and their drama. I get it. I, too, have had a guy leave me for a woman! GASP!

    It happens. Its a bad day when it does, but I’m not going to go hating on other women just because one guy was a louse.

    @GregV

    I know that, I was quoting what I hear from straight guys. That is their idea of what gay sex is. They feel that homosexual men “bend over” and suck cock–like that’s a bad thing. Go figure.

  57. Mark says

    Contrary to popular belief, not all non-effeminate men are denying their “inner queen” because of homophobia.

    I think it is funny how many gay men think we would all be channeling Joan Crawford at all the time if it weren’t for bigotry against gays. Just like for some men it is “”normal? for them to be feminine, there are also men whose “normal” is masculine.

  58. TJ says

    MARK – Absolutely. And nancy boys are not necessarily denying an urge to shoot guns, drink Coors, and watch NASCAR. What people are objecting to is the denigration of more effeminate men; that they are portraying a negative stereotype, and that they “should” act in a less objectionable manner in order to be accepted, as if that is the key.

  59. Jayson says

    I agree – I know men of varying degrees of masc-fem, both gay and straight. In fact I know one straight man who is more femme than any gay man I’ve ever met.

    There is nothing wrong with being effeminate, but the gay men who adopt the whole bitchy ghetto black woman/diva persona do a real disservice to us as a group.

  60. says

    “Contrary to popular belief, not all non-effeminate men are denying their “inner queen” because of homophobia.”

    Contrary to your statement, that’s not actually something anyone here (or anywhere else…) has ever said.

    here’s the truth – confident, secure men don’t mock belittle or distance themselves from “effeminate” men. AT ALL.

    there are no masculine males, anywhere, who dislike or demean “femme” guys. NONE.

    the only men who distance themselves from, denigrate, mock and demean “femme” guys are insecure cowardly gay men who are still pathetically hoping that if they laugh at a “queen” then maybe the (straight) men in their lives will think more highly of them.

    newsflash: they won’t.

    so, rather than more cowardly gays coming on to say “hey, we’re not all femme queens” how abut you post a video of yourselves, and show us how “non-stereotypical” you are?

    if you can’t, just remember this: there’s nothing remotely “masc” about being Closeted or afraid of people knowing you’re gay.

  61. Mark says

    I think the thing that is most sad about this comment thread is all the people invested in trying to convince everyone else they are wrong and they are right. Whenever someone says something favorable about effeminate men it is taken as a slight about masculine men and vice versa—or that somehow that person is somehow saying is better to be one than the other. This is not specifically said but is evident in the pattern of the discussions and reactions.

    We talk so much about tolerance and diversity—but what about tolerance when it comes to the diversity of thought? If your perception of things works for you, fine. As long as it doesn’t infringe on someone else’s right to be who they are, who cares what they think?

  62. says

    well, Mark, not all “thoughts” or “opinions” are Equal, or in fact Valid.

    some are bogus nonsense.

    you, for example, made up and argument that doesn’t exist. certainly not on this thread.

    nobody has said that “non-effeminate men are denying their inner-queen because of homophobia”. nobody. not one person.

    it’s said, over and over again, that the men crippled by internalized homophobia are the ones who can’t shut up about “gay stereotypes, those femmy queeny guys, blah blah blah.”

    that gets said. a lot. justifiably. then we get guys who come on and say “stop saying that because i’m *masc* i’m a self-hating gay”

    too bad nobody’s said that, eh?

    diversity of thought? what does that even mean? varying levels of intelligence or honesty?

    if all the guys who complain about “femmes” represented themselves as gay men, rather than going on and on about what they’re “not” from the anonymity of a gay messageboard, maybe you’d change things.

    i look forward to you, Mark (and others), posting the URLs to your own video/web pages where you show what a strong empowered example you live by.

    look, it’s easy.

    ta-dahhhh

  63. GeorgeM says

    Mark I hear what you’re saying but someone like Rick believes that if we eliminate “none” masculine gay men we would achieve equality. He believes they injure him by denying him freedom simply because they exist.
    Rick has a right to think that but I question the underlying motive to exclude certain people from our community. I think that hurts us more.

  64. says

    fun fact: confident and secure “masculine men” don’t have any issue whatsoever with perceived “non-masculine/effeminate” men.

    at all.

    know who has a problem with them? insecure reluctant homosexuals who are still living each day looking over their shoulder worrying what The Straights are saying about them.

    it’s just like the vocally anti-gay men who then get busted in a motel with their ankles in the air.

    you scream about and denigrate what you don’t want people to know lives inside you.

    no confident masculine gay men have a problem with gay men who exist on a different side of the “masc/femme” societal spectrum.

    the only ones who have a problem with such things are the insecure resentful homosexuals who are still living an inauthentic lie of an existence.

    again : to those who claim to want to see more diversity in “gay representations” – DO IT YOURSELF. represent YOURSELF.

    and, if you don’t have a videocamera here’s an example of how you can do it without using video.

    http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/04/fathers-message.html

    see how easy that was? time for you all to do the same.

  65. Jerry6 says

    I hope the producers were doing these two videos for us “Club Members”, only. I would not show either to “Non Members”. They both exhibit the negative stereo image prevalent before “Stonewall”.

  66. Kenneth says

    Little Kiwi, I love you!
    The thing that most of you arguing back and forth about masculine and feminine are forgetting is that these are mutable traits. They are constructs of society and have changed many times over and will most certainly change again.
    There was a time when the most powerful, masculine men in society wore togas and sandals, there was a time when the most powerful, masculine men in society wore tights and powdered wigs, there was a time when the most powerful, masculine men wore dark navy suits, with plain, starched, white shirts and solid ties…Hell, if I wore a mere 20 years ago, what some of the so called butch young men of today are wearing, I would have been called a nelly queen…although…who gives a flying fig? Dance to the beat of your own drummer, just don’t expect everyone else to hear the same rhythm.

  67. just_a_guy says

    Dang, Anastasia, when ur right, ur right. Gawd, I love u man :—). hahahaha.

    Oh, and, I dunno, I didn’t watch the vids and see “effeminate” men. I don’t really see effeminacy I guess. Or not as some imagined trait that needs to be guarded against. I mean, sometimes guys who might be perceived as a tad effeminate are at their core super hunky-dudey, ha. And to look for effeminacy in a guy, ANY guy, with the intent to thereby see him unattractive or unmasculine, is to write off virtually 100% of the male species, sorry. If you do that, you like guys because???

    Not to mention that sometimes the biggest “flamers” precisely in BEING so flamboyant are in an undeniable way the MOST masculine of any, more bold and manly than the rest of us even have it in us to pull off. To the extent that Li’l Kiwi sometimes comes across in his posts as stereotypically effeminate: Dude! I’d put him in this latter category. :-). (But didn’t I see a video once of little K, and he’s actually way more stereotypically butch than you’d guess by his posts?) As if it matters, of course; for S&G, ya know :-).

  68. just_a_guy says

    I mean, I admit I think of myself as finding “masculinity” attractive…but if I accepted others’ imagined restrictions on masculinity, no dude I’ve ever known would qualify. Not one.

    To me, what’s sexy in a guy is an undertone of genuineness, those hints of some vulnerability. THAT’s what reveals the man underneath, and it’s usually that man underneath that I fall in love w, u know. Not some silly caricature of “man.” Am I wrong?

  69. Russ says

    Nice concept but as others here have already said, its appeal is limited: not everybody is a hip, big-city 20-something. Who exactly is the director trying to reach with this message? Gay people are as diverse in their looks, ages, and behaviors as straight people are, but this video makes no attempt to show that.

    Also, the in-your-face, nah-nah-na-nah-nah tone of voice that every speaker uses is really pretty offputting, even for me, and I was out long before any of them were born.

    So again, who exactly are you trying to reach with this message and this attitude? As we say down in Texas, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar – that doesn’t mean you have to sugarcoat everything, but whose mind exactly do you think will be changed by this?

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