1. Max says

    LGBT rights are “a long way off” in Egypt, he says. Well now, we can’t blame that one on the Bush bogeyman, can we?

  2. scott says

    @ Max- that has nothing to do with Obama and you kno that. The Obama administration supported the protesters somewhat- but offered no military, financial, or logistical support. And as the doctor mentioned in the article pointed out- if the protesters on the frontlines of the revolution were the ones elected- gay rights would’ve been advanced.

    While criticism of President Bush’s foreign policies abounded (and, I think, rightly so) I don’t remember anyone faulting him for LGBT rights suffering worldwide. Perhaps in the US, but not worldwide.

    And- as I hope you would know- the Obama admin. has issued several statements encouraging foreign governments to soften their stances on gay rights, and the Sec. of State has worked continuously on pressing other governments to relax their anti-gay laws.

    Is that anything that any ONE of the candidates from the Republican Party would have done? No- in fact a number of Republican commentators and politicians criticized the State Department for encouraging other governments to stop harassing/murdering their own gay citizens.

    I understand having vastly different opinions on issues that conflict with the Democratic party- and voting on a myriad of issues- not just gay rights issues.That’s fine. But NO ONE can say that the Republican party has EVER been anything but an enemy to gay people and their right to love and live freely in the US.

  3. Max says

    Scott, none of that matters. I wasn’t blaming Obama. His foreign policy is naive, but he is not responsible for Arab savagery or Islamo-fascism. I was mocking previous comments on Towleroad.

    This is not Bush’s fault. This is not Obama’s fault. This is Islam, and this is what Arabs do to LGBT kids. No other religious adherents *systematically* beat kids to death for looking gay.

  4. Brim says

    I’m starting to think the UN should force the US out of Afghanistan. US officials are clearly in denial about the effects of their own policies. And the drone attacks in Pakistan aren’t exactly rallying other Muslim countries to a US cause. And the stuff coming out of Wikileaks now is a proverbial nail in the coffin. World to US: do we have to drag you out? Really?

  5. Salythetruth says

    As a high functionary of Israel said in the beginning of the Egyptian uprising: “There will never be a real democracy in Egypt”. An obviously time is proving him right. The Arab Spring is not about democracy, it’s just about getting rid of the old dictators who played their own secular games. And –little by little- putting in power the hard line Islam fundamentalist who will turn every revolting Arab country in versions of Iran. That is why Israel is desperate to stop Iran nuclear power. A new wave of fanaticism –those generations who don’t remember the war with Israel- will rise and trouble will ensue. Democracy is a concept way too strange to countries where religion/culture is all about intolerance. Turkey –the same and only that wants to enter the European Union- is the country with the world wide record of imprisoned journalist. Islam is just incompatible with what we understand as freedom of expression and consciousness.

  6. says

    Sally, clearly you have no idea.

    World’s largest Islam country? Also happens to be a democracy – Indonesia. Also, The Arab Spring was actually about corrupt regimes. Countries whose rulers were filling their own pockets at the expense of their citizens… Nothing to do with Islam (apart from it being the dominant religion in those countries)

  7. DanCobb says

    Look, the next phase in all the Arab countries where there was an “Arab Spring” is a extreme right-wing theocracy. These people have no concept or clue as to what democracy is. There is never peaceful change of power in these countries. There is no Enlightenment, there is no religious Reformation, there has been no Industrial Revolution, the “Scientific Method” has never been inculcated into the people. Everything is a mystery, everything is Allah-related, and there is no modernity in any Arab nation. That’s a fact. These are the most primitive societies on earth, by far. And I think we need to leave them alone, and let them develop their internal politics and maybe in 100 years or 1000 years they will have evolved politically to the point where they can join the world community. I am a very left-leaning person, but I can tell you after having lived in some of these countries, that in this day and age, people in Arab countries cannot conceive of the notion of separateion of church and state. The church is (or should be) the state, or at least a huge part of the state! That’s how people think. Everything is about their god. So the state is all about their god too. I find it hugely primitive. And self-defeating… but they’ve got to learn that lesson for themselves, and it will require them to start valuing education (which they have no concept of, other than rocking in sitting position and reciting the Koran from memory from cover to cover!). It’s going to take a LONG time!

  8. DanCobb says

    Max, I disagree with you that it is Islam… although that is not helpful. It really is the Arab culture. This is a culture that demands nothing of its young men. Young men can rape, and the victim (girl) get 40 lashes. I’ve lived in these countries, most men have no education, have never applied themselves to anything (and those that have only leared the verses of the KOran by heart and are considered great scholars!), never learned much of anything, and sit around drinking coffee in neighborhood cafes all day long. SO, because these males feel like they’re so much human detritus, they denigrate their women and their women become the vessel of punishment, shame, and all the ugly frustrations that men vent onto their women. Including forcing their women to wear burlap bags from head to toe. SOmewhat psychotic, I would argue.
    This is an Arab pattern of family and social life… It is not Malaysian or INdonesian or TUrkish or Iranian… it’s particularly Arab. They really need to look themselves in the mirror.

  9. Paul R says

    @Dancobb: I’d love to know where and when you lived in these countries, which span many cultures and interpretations of Islam.

    Because your comments are unbelievably ignorant.

  10. Rin says


    Does no one notice, at all, the whole game people are playing to demonize the Iranians????

    Saudi Arabia has a zero tolerance for gays. Where are the openly gay Saudis?

    Where are the openly gay Yemenese?

    Where are the openly gay Kuwaitis?


    It is easy to demonize Iran now because the propaganda machine has started so that when Israel attacks them we will fall in line with it. I would think that gays and lesbians who are so sensitive to the subtle effects of language would understand what is happening, the “that’s so gay” effect… the “no homo”. Being able to ridicule or hyperbolize with impunity are the first steps.

    Iran is no worse (or better) than the Saudis when it comes to human rights. Like North Korea their weapons have no chance of reaching the US. They are merely a thorn in the side of those members of the CFR who can’t get them under control enough to sell us oil.

    Yes, it is a craphole of human indignity for women and for gays, but no more than any other middle eastern nation.

    Where are women’s rights in Israel? What Jewish woman of orthodox bent may divorce her husband and remarry? Why do they wear hot wigs in a desert climate? Can a Palestinian woman uncover her head in public?

    How about Saudi Arabia? Can a gay man put a pink triangle on the bumper of his car? Can he brag upon the love of his life to friends and family?

    Only if he wants to be stoned to death…legally.


    I’ve lived in Cairo (6 months). I lived in Jordan (6 months). I lived in Turkey (6 months). I spent 2 weeks in Iraq. I’ve also gone to Indonesia.

    You are right that it is MOSTLY cultural interpretations of Islam–Turkey is a wonderful country that I would be quite happy to live in. However, Turkey is an anomaly in a sea of misogyny that is predicated upon religion and influenced by culture.

  11. Vlad says


    Thank you, as always, for providing interesting and intelligent commentary. Most of the commenters on this site should be deeply ashamed of the ignorance and prejudice they express.