Comments

  1. Sebastian says

    Thanks Andy for staying on top of this story, few gay blogs seem to know or care about this horrific crime, and, Zach Stafford, I applaud him on his words as well, which sadly will ring hollow to many who will reply to this post with total indifference.

  2. says

    I’m just stunned at how the whole thing is playing out. The police-corruption angle is galling, and there isn’t an intellectually honest person around who will disagree that if it had been a black man shooting a white teen, he’d be in jail from Moment One.

  3. says

    Why would gay blogs have this on their sites? There is nothing gay related about it. Meanwhile, it’s on CNN and other news outlets every 3 mins. If people haven’t heard about it yet, they’re living under a rock.

    Why is he even chiming in on the matter? Why not comment about all the other horrific acts of violence in the country each day? Oh yeah, because he needs to score points with the black community, for whom he’s done nothing. Unemployment in black communities is still double that of other groups. In no way are African Americans better off now than 4 years ago.

    Not PC enough for my super-liberal gay brethren? Perhaps. But absolutely true? Yup.

  4. Rick says

    Stafford’s comments represent just another ludicrous attempt to analogize the problems gay people face with those blacks face….and pretend that there is some kind of mutual sympathy/alliance between the two groups under some kind of progressive umbrella–and some kind of parallel between the civil rights movement and the gay movement, when the reality is that the vast majority of blacks are homophobic–including, no doubt, the vast majority who are protesting in this instance.

    If this were the case of a gay man having been killed, you would see neither sympathy nor empathy from these protesters–and if the gay man were white and the murderer black, not only would you see no sympathy, but you would see outright hostility.

    So please, gay white liberals, stop with the civil rights movement analogies–your message is stale and has largely fallen on deaf ears in the African-American community, who see no parallel, no common cause, and no reason for any alliance, as politically inconvenient as that may be….and if they haven’t by now, they are never going to.

    It is not because they don’t understand the argument–problem is, they have rejected your argument, like it or not.

  5. David Hearne says

    The Martin case is not a review of the stand your ground law or the second amendment. If Zimmerman was righteous in his use of force, and he would be if Martin attacked him, then he’s covered by the SYG law. If he wasn’t righteous in his use of force, then the SYG law doesn’t apply and isn’t the issue.

    it’s nice that so many people think that they are sufficiently safe and protected by their wealth, location, or attitude. Most of them are way wrong, including any of them who live in major cities. Remember that it was not that long ago that two men got in a stolen car and drove a long way to attack a gay man in Westhollywood. Because he was gay, because he was white, or because they thought it would be fun, it makes no difference. He did not have the means to defend himself.

    Every gay person should be armed.

    As for George Zimmerman, the police acted according to the law. Many people are cheering the effect of a mob demanding “justice”. Does justice come from petitions, mobs, and popularity contests? Why didn’t Lawrence O’Donnell make any mention of Zimmerman’s wounds to the back of his head or the fact that he had wet grass on his back? So people who are about to commit a random act of violence usually call police while they are doing it?

    Don’t tell me about “intellectually honest people” when you aren’t being intellectual or honest, much less objective.

  6. says

    ignore Rick, who once again posts from cowardly closeted anonymity.

    also ignore “Sean” who is yet another Alias for a resident troll.

    Trayvon’s death is a tremendous loss for not only his family, but indicates just how far Our Culture Has To Go to work past the prejudices that still mire this country.

  7. says

    i repeat: had a black man shot and killed a 17 year old white teen, the man would have been in immediate police custody.

    this is obvious to everyone who isn’t a giant turd.

    a world where “everyone is armed” is a world that has failed. that’s my idea of Hell.

    i truly hope you gun-nuts arms yourselves, and then kill each other. for real. like that story a few years back about the two hunters in a squabble over “who was hunting the deer” in Michigan who, when the fight escalated, shot and killed each other.

    “great”, i thought. “two less trigger-happy assholes walking around”

  8. melvin says

    Jesus H

    Following Rick’s “logic” I shouldn’t endorse an increase in the minimum wage until I see polling reports on how minimum wage workers vote on equality.

    Please read Julian Bond’s testimony on behalf of marriage equality in the New Jersey senate, for starters. The civil rights hero and former NAACP head explicity makes the case that gay rights are civil rights. The black community is no more monolithic than is this comment forum.

  9. Caliban says

    David Hearne, “self-defense” hardly applies when it’s YOU who follow and corner the person you claim “attacked” you. The police told Zimmerman not to follow Martin but he did anyway. If someone followed you wouldn’t you confront them?

    You know what you call someone who “patrols” their neighborhood but doesn’t join the official Neighborhood Watch and follow its rules? A vigilante.

    Zimmerman isn’t Batman, he’s a loser with a cop fetish who was possibly drinking when this happened, though of course we’ll never know for sure since the police didn’t follow their own protocols for testing in the wake of a shooting.

  10. David Hearne says

    Here’s an idea KIWI, instead of speculating, make your case with some facts. Instead of hoping that law abiding people kill each other, respect the constitution (assuming you are an American).

    When I go riding in a few minutes, I will be in danger for part of that ride. I should not, and will not, avoid a section of the public path simply because it runs through a neighborhood which has a history of attacks on white people. Likewise, I don’t avoid going to Pinellas Park when I have need to go there, for fear of poor white trash looking for meth money. I don’t cower and look away from the criminals crawling the aisles of Walmart. I don’t cloister myself on Treasure Island where bridges protect me.

    If you choose to live your life in fear or the bliss of ignorance, that’s your business.

    My second amendment rights are not open for compromise or debate. My mother’s house is all windows and in a “transitional” neighborhood. She sleeps with a gun next to her bed. Should we move to the Castro for safety? How about West Hollywood? Why don’t you tell us where and how you live so we can be the judge of your level of objectivity here.

    Shall not be infringed.

  11. say what says

    littlekiwi

    there actually is a case in florida of a black man who shot a white person and used the stand your ground law as self defense…

    the black man was arrested immediately and is in jail awaiting trial

    Obama responded excellently

    (The msm isn’t highlighting the beginning which is also extremely important)

    Obama stated as head of the executive branch he is the boss of the AG and thus must be careful on his responses on the case………..(so as to not allow the anti-obama people make it about Obama let alone case an issue with the case that would result in a mistrial) and then he went into thinking about his daughters and that if he had a son he would look like Trayvon…………not said but easily inferred is Obama himself when young could have been a Trayvon.

    Excellent response by our POTUS.

    Justice for Trayvon’s family!

  12. Rick says

    @Melvin That’s like saying that because Jimmy Carter is in favor of gay rights and is an Evangelical Christian, that we should sympathize with Evangelical Christians when it comes to their issues and claims of being victimized by “intolerance”.

    The bottom line is that many gay people who are not black are sick and damn tired of being expected to be sympathetic towards a group who–as a group–have no sympathy at all towards gays and who have repeatedly gone out of their way to defeat our efforts to attain equality–including at the ballot box in every single state that has held referendums on gay marriage (by a 71-29 margin in California and by margins of 90-10 in some other states).

    Continually calling on society to behave with principle towards you as a group and asking them to care about injustices directed at you, as blacks do……when they do not, by and large, as a group (although there are individual exceptions) behave with such principles towards any other minority or care when injustices are directed at them….is not justifiable.

    Blacks as a group are no more favorably inclined towards gay rights than white Evangelical Christians are….and are less favorably inclined towards gay rights than most Republicans are, even, but you don’t see any sympathy at all being extended to the latter two groups on this site or anywhere else in the gay world, do you now?

    Enough is enough.

  13. say what says

    PS

    sean

    a reporter yelled out asking Obama about it

    what should he have done? Ignored it like romney did the other day! Romney walked away saying nothing to a reporter who asked him about the Trayvon case

    get a clue dude, your racism isn’t veiled at all

    translation of sean = “Don’tch all know Trayvon is black and the POTUS is black so who cares. We have to get that black man out of the white house.”

    (trivia….The presidential residence/ mansion was officially changed to the name The White House by Teddy Kennedy as a gift to racists from a man who refused to ever acknowledge black soldiers’ outstanding achievements let alone involvement in spanish american war)

  14. says

    @David, i was lucky enough to be born n’raised in Toronto. In Canada.

    in a country where citizens are smart enough to work harder at creating a culture where people feel no need to carry guns, as opposed to the USA where millions of blithering idiots would rather defend their “right” to own and carry a gun rather than work to create a culture where folks don’t feel a need to “act upon” that right.

    as for me giving info about myself, click my name, find my blog, i’m all over it.

    unlike you. such strong opinions from a man who posts from a place of complete anonymity. feel free to link us all to your own web/youtube page so we can share the same level of transparency.
    😉

  15. Rick says

    “(assuming you are an American). ”

    He’s not; he’s a self-righteous Canadian spouting off from his lily-white country about issues in another country that he doesn’t understand and whose domestic issues he has no more business involving himself with than any other foreigner.

    Just so you know…..otherwise, I would have followed my usual policy of pretending he doesn’t exist.

  16. says

    Rick pretends I don’t exist because I ask Rick to prove that he is what he says he is.

    He ignores because he can’t. Because he’s not what he says he is.

    He’s a closeted, cowardly grown-adult who never got over the fact that his father hated having him for a son.

    the good news: he’ll die in that closet and thus won’t have any negative impact on LGBT people in the real world.

    as for my lil-white country (nice jab, racist!) Toronto is among the most multiculturally diverse cities in the entire world.

    but, as canucks have a culture of multiculturalism and not some False White National Myth, the cultural aspects don’t relate to violence.

    sorry, sad white boys who carry guns because their daddies never loved them 😀

    so hey, Rick, how about that URL where you show us all what a strong masculine manly empowered Out gay male role model you are? HAHAHAHA!

  17. MarkUs says

    MSNBC has introduced the new race category “White Hispanic” which I assume a white-hispanic would select on the census form. Well, unless you’re a black hispanic.

  18. Hollywood, CA says

    Well said, Mr. President. And nothing the GOP can grab on to to twist and turn to use for their own political gain. “If I had a son he would look like Trayvon…” Powerful words.

  19. sugarrhill says

    Not to feed the trolls, but let me understand this- we teach our children not to talk to strangers and if approached by one to either run away or scream and fight as if their life depended on it. Then you have a case of a stranger in a car with a gun that follows a teenager home. Gets out fo his car when explicitly told by the 911 operator not, but it’s the child’s fault. Mind you, Zimmerman has 100 lbs. on the boy. Seriously, some are questioning Martin’s actions. He did everything right. Had this been some little white girl there’s no doubt Zimmerman would be in police custody and no one would be questioning why he suffered attack marks because we’d know that at least the girl fought back before she was killed. Everyone would be applauding the fact she didn’t just let her attacker do what he wanted. It’s truly sickening that some think Zimmerman was at all justified in his actions at all. A boy went out for candy and never came home again all because someone thought he looked supicious because of his skin color. Anyone that believes his murder was justified is truly horrible.

  20. David Hearne says

    “there actually is a case in florida of a black man who shot a white person and used the stand your ground law as self defense…

    the black man was arrested immediately and is in jail awaiting trial

    Apples and oranges. You can’t simply compare all cases of people who claim SYG and then say “See, if it was a black man….” Well you can, but it won’t make you credible.

    In the case you refer to, Trevor Dooley brandished a firearm at a man who was with his children and disagreeing with Dooley over community policy on skateboarding. When Dooley brandished, he threatened James, who then grabbed the gun in defensive response. Dooley is charged with manslaughter and is out on bond. Totally different scenario.

  21. David Hearne says

    Markus,

    “hispanic” is a census term, it’s a language group not a race. If you will read the census guidelines it says something like “hispanic can be of any race, do not add or subtract this number from racial statistics” .

    Of course people do subtract “hispanic” from cacuasian/white which is how they come up with these erroneous numbers in discussions. I usually point to a photo of Mel Martinez with Bush and friends and challenge someone to point to the “hispanic” in the crowd.

    White hispanic isn’t a new racial term. “White non-hispanic” has been used for some time by demographers. Mexicans and most latinos who are not inarguably congoid have traditionally been considered white/caucasoid. If you look back, in about 1948 you’ll find a case of a America woman of Mexican ancestry being prosecuted for marrying a Negroid/Congoid male.

  22. jayson says

    @David Hearne
    You are absolutely right about you having the right to own a firearm and protect yourself and your home.
    HOWEVER you are completely wrong about this case, this so called vigilante, followed this boy because looked suspicious, called 911 to tell them to which he was told to stop following him. Not only did he continue to follow the boy but he got out of his car and attacked him. You can hear on a neighbor 911 tape that the boy was screaming help! Help! before he was shot to death, I’m not sure how anyone cannot see that this boy was not the aggressor, he was followed, confronted, attacked, and killed because he was black and therefore suspicious looking to this man.

  23. MarkUs says

    “White hispanic isn’t a new racial term. “White non-hispanic” has been used for some time”

    Exactly. “White non-hispanic” has been used for some time. “White Hispanic” used by a news organization is a term invented to get out of using “Hispanic”.

  24. David Hearne says

    Markus,

    You’re right, I haven’t actually heard anyone else use ‘white hispanic” but I have heard and read similar. This is a trashy reference, but on Craigslist you will find many men from points south who ID as “white latino” or “white Puerto Rican”. As for Cubans, they do a funny thing- they refer to blacks by various names (some nicer than others), themselves as Cubans and/or white, but when they are together call Anglos “white boys”. And they talk nasty about Puerto Ricans.

    People are tribal. All the bluster in the world isn’t going to change that. If the world were to randomly rut until everyone was beige with slightly slanted eyes, people would find lines to draw. They would breed for a couple of hundred years and you would have races again.

  25. Caliban says

    David Hearne, unless your elderly mother goes out stalking potential criminals in her neighborhood the gun in her nightstand absolutely effing NOTHING to do with this case.

    Like it or not, guns in America aren’t going away in the foreseeable future. For that reason I’m not opposed to gay people owning weapons for their own protection but that doesn’t have anything to do with case either.

    This case is about a self-appointed neighborhood watchman who followed, cornered, and killed a young man who was armed with a bag of Skittles and Iced Tea, after being told by a police dispatcher NOT to follow him. Zimmerman has a history of violent assaults on others, including the police, completely unrelated to his imaginary “duties.” I would say that Trayvon Martin’s race was immaterial to this case except his race is what caused Zimmerman to view him as “suspicious” in the first place.

  26. melvin says

    Judging people based on their membership in a suspect class? Gee, that sounds familiar somehow. If you do not see individuals, but only the group, you are a racist. Period.

  27. David Hearne says

    KIWI-

    “see? David believes that Trayvon’s crime of being Black is greater than Zimmerman’s crime of murdering him.”

    If you are going to make such an allegation, you should have the courtesy to quote the text which you claim proves it. So far, it’s not difficult to understand why someone would choose to ignore you.

  28. David Hearne says

    “Judging people based on their membership in a suspect class? Gee, that sounds familiar somehow. If you do not see individuals, but only the group, you are a racist.”

    I haven’t seen where anyone here has done that. If you want to make the word “racist” completely without power, keep over using it for everyone you disagree with. It’s already virtually meaningless thanks to the DU crowd.

  29. melvin says

    Apparently Hearne you don’t read Rick’s comments for one, where, since some black organizations fail to endorse marriage equality or whatever, all black people are undeserving of sympathy or aid no matter how outrageous the offence.

    This Zimmerman was a nut. He obviously called the cops every time he saw a black person walking down the sidewalk. You seem to think his loony phone calls argue in his defense. My question is, with a file of calls from this loon, why the police would put any stock at all in one more. His evidence is “Now he’s looking at me.” Who wouldn’t look at an obviously crazy person obviously following them? I certainly would, if only to try and figure out how much danger I was in.

  30. Gregv says

    The Trayvon Martin case is outrageous to me. And it is a symptom of this sickening culture of glorification and justification for violence. “Conceal and Carry?” Stand Your Ground?”.
    Along with Little Kiwi, most of the civilized world, where people are much safer walking down the street than in the United States, shake their heads in bafflement as they see so many Americans seeming to push toward a society in which every time any kid walks down the street to get an iced tea or go to school, they should be armed and ready for a deadly shootout.

    @Rick: First I go read an editorial by an anti-gay writer claiming that if Trayvon had been gay, the shooter would have been imprisoned on hate crime charges (using the Daehun Ravi case as support for the argument) and now I read a comment here (very predictably from you) based on racist us-against-them notions. The true civil rights leaders in the black community are, and always have been, on the side of fairness for everyone, just as gay rights leaders have been.
    And Little Kiwi’s country is hardly “lily white.”. Hic city was recognized by the United Nations as the world’s most multiple-cultural city, and nearly half the people in it are non-white.

    In regards to the Trayvon Martin case, the laws and attitudes that allowed this to happen are very disturbing to me. It would really make me have reservations about even visiting Florida or any other state that seems to value weapons more than human life.

  31. Bob says

    SEAN IS 100% RIGHT about expecting Black folks to go for Gay rights in the forseeable future. I do think that since Towleroad covers liberal issues, the Trayvon thing is OK here.
    Trayvon, a Miamian, died for “Walking while Black” in the redneck part of Flawrida
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    BUT WHERE IS THE PUBLIC OUTCRY ABOUT THE 2 GAY WHITE MEN killed for walking drunk in the wrong part of Sarasota, by a Black kid Trayvon’s age

  32. t says

    Absolutely. And if he had a son, he could also look like Robert Champion, Jr., who died at the hands of peers “hazing” him.

    Where is the outrage? Missing, because he’s gay? Because he’s in the band, and not a football player? Because he was killed by peers?

  33. el polacko says

    while young people of all races are being, both purposefully and accidentally, gunned down in the streets on a daily basis why did the president choose (the questioner was a plant) to make his opinion known in this particular case? considering obama’s history of frequently referring to himself as a president who “doesn’t look like the others” and who “doesn’t look like the other guys on the money”,etc., it’s no great leap to assume, when saying that the teen who was shot looks like he could be his son, that he was not referring to his big ears but rather to the color of his skin. not letting this tragedy ‘go to waste’, he’s exploiting the story to fit into his constant theme of america’s being a racist society wherein those with the darkest skin tones are the most victimized.
    it’s another example of obama espousing professor bell’s marxist ‘critical race theory’ which obama championed as both a college student and as a ‘community organizer’.
    as he did in the prof.gates incident (“the police acted stupidly”), obama is improperly inserting the office of the presidency into a local police matter of which we do not yet have all the facts. will he be calling another ‘beer summit’ if the facts of the case prove to be other than is currently supposed?

  34. el polacko says

    as to the stafford piece, there is no reason why gay people in particular should choose to align themselves with anybody else’s movement. over the course of the last several decades we have allowed the gay rights movement to be co-opted and diffused by a panapoly of leftist causes. we’ve marched for everything from feminism to trade unions to black liberation, not to mention those who are professed enemies of gay people like the communists and the palestinians. foolishly, we donned our ‘fashionable’ che t-shirts, oblivious to the fact that the man, personally, murdered gay people in cold blood for the ‘good’ of his marxist vision for society. we have draped ourselves in ‘fashionable’ keffiyah scarves in solidarity with societies that stone gay people to death. we have chanted and raised our fists in the air for people who were simply using us.
    meanwhile, our own rights were politically assaulted, we were burdened by the medical emergency of aids, and our movement for equality languished. none of the other groups, who had promised to ‘scratch our backs’ if we scratched theirs came to our defense and support. but what did we do? we stuck by them anyway and joined in their demonization of the political right, thereby alienating half of the population that we needed, and still need, to be persuaded that ours is a just cause that’s not just another in the list of lefty rallying points. can we, at least, learn a little something from the recent vote in new hampshire where representatives from both sides of the aisle refused to strip away marriage rights and try to build on that? can we tell those who want to use us that we are kinda busy right now working on our own issues? the modern american gay rights movement is over 50 years old. isn’t it time that we grew up?

  35. Frank says

    How do you know the questioner was a plan EL Polacko? You must have some sort of ESP to be so sure when there is no evidence supporting what you claim.

  36. Frank says

    Maybe Obama commented on the story because it was personal to him. You do know a lot of black males in America are still racially profiled and searched on a regular basis. I myself have on various occasions been stopped walking down the street, pulled over in my car and asked point blank if I had drugs on me, and questioned about whether my car was stolen. And, given the fact that Obama attended Harvard during the 80’s I’m sure that he not short on experience being profiled as well.

  37. Rick says

    @El Polacko Nail on head. Most insightful comment I have ever read on this forum (not that that is saying much).

    The gay movement has floundered largely because it has been taken over by activists who act as automatons of the Far Left, who kiss the backsides of groups of people who spit in our faces at every opportunity–out of some delusional sense that if they do so often enough, these groups will become our allies…….and by so doing, alienate the much larger group of people in the social mainstream who would become our allies if the gay movement were not tinged by these Far Left associations.

    Really a sad state of affairs.

  38. SMH says

    This is just hilarious to read the racists coming out of the woodwork about this story. Instead of being concerned that an innocent kid was a victim of a hate crime, they want to spew nonsense. As for people wondering where was the public outcry for this or that, I ask if you were trying to spread the word about that story….because that’s how the Trayvon story got so much media attention.

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