Israeli Defense Forces Posts Photo of Gay Soldiers Holding Hands to Official Facebook Page
The Israeli Defense Forces posted this photo to its official Facebook page today, with the following caption:
"It's Pride Month. Did you know that the IDF treats all of its soldiers equally?"
The photo has generated more than 3,000 shares and nearly 5,000 likes as of this post.
The HuffPost notes:
Israel was one of the first countries to abolish restrictions on openly gay soldiers serving in the military. In 1993 the country adopted a law that prohibits discrimination against gay forces, nearly 20 years ahead of the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell" in the United States.
Yet despite the military's liberal policies, a 2011 study showed more than 40 percent of gay and lesbian soldiers in the IDF say they have been harassed because of their sexuality. According to Haaretz, 45 percent of respondents claimed homophobic remarks remained frequent, with soldiers in combat units reporting them more frequently.
Nice picture, but I have read that affection including handholding is not considered necessarily gay in some Middle Eastern countries and can exist between male friends. Not sure about Isreal.
Posted by: percy | Jun 11, 2012 6:52:13 PM
It's great that people can serve openly, but the gun in this photo just throws it all off for me. How can we be about achieving equality and justice without any discussion of the inherent inequality and injustice of war, or the inherent oppressive nature of the military? This is the kind of conversation we should really be getting at, not just stopping short at allowing gay and lesbian people to serve openly without a thought for what "serve" includes, or what happens after.
For the record, I have a lot of experience dealing with the PTSD of my ex-military boyfriend, so this comes from a pretty personal place, but I believe that anyone in any other situation could come to this same conclusion. Also, I firmly believe this conversation will continue, whether or not the reader thinks it is worthy of the time and attention it so desperately requires. We owe it to ourselves to ask for more.
Posted by: Jesus | Jun 11, 2012 7:02:09 PM
I was thinking the same, Percy. And I think that the report of continuing harassment and negative remarks is an indication of how the post-DADT US forces will be.
All the fiats can't eliminate deeply ingrained prejudice and related behavior. Nobody should expect a sudden total turnaround at the face-to-face levels. The will to enforce new regulations, standards and behavior expectations will be tested. We can't expect a fairy tale ending.
Posted by: gregory brown | Jun 11, 2012 7:03:34 PM
Percy is right. You can't take hand-holding as prima facie evidence they're lovers.
Posted by: John Conolley | Jun 11, 2012 7:18:01 PM
Changing the law doesn't change the climate. If the military resists integrating gays, they will be outsiders.
Posted by: candideinnc | Jun 11, 2012 7:22:45 PM
IDF treats it's soldiers equally but IDF sure as hell does not treat all of Israeli citizens the same. They are the enforcers of apartheid .
Posted by: Osman | Jun 11, 2012 7:29:07 PM
Given all the above comments, this cheap shot at the ongoing pinkwashing is not just quite working, thank God Almighty!
Posted by: Iban4yesu | Jun 11, 2012 7:34:28 PM
You know, I gets so effing tired of the pinkwashing term---- and I'm as liberal/progressive as one can come. Give credit where credit is due- and hold their feet to the fire on the rest. As for the REMAINDER of the countries in the region- save for Jordan or Egypt perhaps (and they're far far from welcoming places themselves)-you get prison time or DEATH for being gay. Yeah, Israel has done some bad sh*t- and might I say- in a climate filled with countries who would hate them no matter what they did- but ALL of the countries around Israel oppress, squelch, kill, and destroy the rights of their own citizens- and ESPECIALLY their LGBT citizens- many many many times worse than Israel has ever dreamed of doing.
Posted by: scott | Jun 11, 2012 7:48:43 PM
No, I mean, 'a cheap ploy in...'
Posted by: Iban4yesu | Jun 11, 2012 7:54:12 PM
No, I mean, 'a cheap ploy in...'
Posted by: Iban4yesu | Jun 11, 2012 7:54:13 PM
They most certainly are NOT treated the same. They aren't allowed to marry and if one dies, or is killed, his partner is entitled to NOTHING!
That's not treating them the same.
Are they allowed to work as hard, risk their lives as much and die on the battlefield the same? Yes. But benefits are not the same.
Posted by: TampaZeke | Jun 11, 2012 7:54:36 PM
Oh, and I agree with Jesus 100%. And that's pretty fascinating considering I'm Buddhist!
Posted by: TampaZeke | Jun 11, 2012 7:57:19 PM
I dated THE HOTTEST guy from Israel years ago. Man that guy had the biggest c**k. I loved having sex with that one.
Posted by: Alan | Jun 11, 2012 7:57:34 PM
Wow so many anti Israel haters on here Israel may not be perfect but they are way better than any other country in that region and even better than most European countries when it comes to gay rights. Also btw in Israel you can enter into civil partnerships with equal marriage rights(even adoption) and if you marry outside the country they will recognize it as legal.
Posted by: Lee | Jun 11, 2012 8:18:39 PM
OK, where to begin?
1) Yes, in many Middle Eastern countries, men hold hands and display other forms of physical affection for each other--in ARAB and ISLAMIC countries, not in Israel, which is Western in its culture
2) My guess is that the harrassment of gays in the Israeli military has less to do with homosexuality than it does with effeminacy--unlike in the US, where military service is voluntary, in Israel, it is mandatory, which means that gays in the military in Israel are not self-selected for more masculine traits the way they are in the US.....Just another example of how damaging effeminacy is to gaining acceptance
3) @Jesus Would you people on the Far Left politically PLEASE, PLEASE stop trying to tie gay rights to every single Leftist cause under the sun? It severely damages our ability to win over the entire population when our cause is seen as being an element of the Far Left agenda rather than a matter of basic human decency....just as it would if a cause is seen as being a part of the Far Right agenda. Regardless of your convictions, please step back and try to be objective about how this tendency to "lump" gay rights in with all your other causes damages us. I am a strong environmentalist and animal rights activist, but I would NEVER try to tie gay rights to those causes because of the complications it would cause.
4) @Scott Sex with other guys is very easy to come by in most Arab and Islamic countries, far more so than it is in the West. I know that from direct experience. It is just a different culture. You are no more likely to be arrested for having sex with another guy in most Islamic countries--as long as you are reasonably discreet--than you were to be arrested for "sodomy" in the US when those laws were on the books. Much of the disinformation of the sort you just spread is, in fact, spread by Israel as a means of trying to paint their Arab neighbors as "aliens" and "crazy people" for an ignorant US audience.
Thanks.
Posted by: Rick | Jun 11, 2012 8:20:05 PM
It's a beautiful picture. It's a reminder to the members of the IDF that gay folk are to be treated equally. It's NOT a dissertation on "war and peace". Or puppies and kittens. Or the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. That "gun" that causes Jesus such duress? You're kidding me right? I'm a vet. I'm currently at 17 years Navy(active and reserve). This is certainly not some abstract concept for me. I come out when I have to (which has happened several times already)and believe me...I take a deep breath when I have to answer "because I'm gay". I get it. But never-mind me. Feel free to criticize and complain. If finding fault is what your good at...then good. For. You. I think that picture is sweet.
Posted by: Steve | Jun 11, 2012 8:26:16 PM
I'm also so sick of idiot "so left they've come full circle to the right" queens using the term "pinkwashing". Why don't you go over to Palestine and try being openly gay and tell them you want to help them. You're useful idiots for them. They hate you.
Posted by: andy | Jun 11, 2012 8:47:12 PM
"Just another example of how damaging effeminacy is to gaining acceptance"
@RICK, I really have no words, but I imagine you would not understand anyway. Newsflash, some gay men are effeminate, something which in no watch devalues their masculinity or male identity. Effeminacy is not an unfavorable characteristic for a male.
Posted by: Xavi | Jun 11, 2012 8:48:26 PM
Pet Peeve:
People who tell you how LIBERAL they are just before saying something right wing.
I am sure in your mind you a raging Leftist. However, does your mind meet up with reality?
I won't get into the Israeli debate. Its not winnable. I just wish people would stop trying to label themselves as Liberal or Progressive just so they can say something right wing.
Posted by: facts | Jun 11, 2012 8:48:36 PM
Those Arabs sympathizers are always quick to condem Israel, yet they fail to speak out against Arab counties that have public hanging of Arab teen agers, just for holding hands. They fail to speak out agains Syria who are killing thousands of their own innocent civilians. How many Arab countries allow Gay Pride Parades or gays in their armies. Israel is not perfect, but compared to their neighbors they are SAINTS! The Palestinians have been pawns of the Arab countries, keeping them in refugee camps... and arming them to fight the Jews, rather then build hospitals and schools. They have been offered many peace treaties, but ALL they want, is ALL of Israel!
Posted by: jerry Pritikin | Jun 11, 2012 9:00:52 PM
Let them fix their problems first then I'll aww the hell out of that picture.
Posted by: ed | Jun 11, 2012 9:09:17 PM
Let me know when an Arab country starts having any wash to pink.
Posted by: Moishe Pupik | Jun 11, 2012 10:11:29 PM
@TampaZeke
That is not entirely true. There was actually a court case about survivor benefits. The IDF settled with the survivor and paid benefits
Here is an independent and more detailed report:
http://www.palmcenter.org/node/554
Posted by: SteveTwo | Jun 11, 2012 10:25:04 PM
I'm going to believe they're lovers and find the picture sweet. No one else knows.
Posted by: UFFDA | Jun 11, 2012 11:11:30 PM
@ Rick, Scott and Jesus,
Jesus, you're entitled to your anti-war views just as much as anyone else. However, within the context of equal rights, Rick clearly wins the argument. In every civilization since the beginning of history, service in the armed forces has been equivalent to citizenship and all the rights that implies. No country ever gives weapons to a population that it considers unworthy. The fact that a man became a Roman legionnaire implied that he was therefore a full citizen of the Roman Empire. The same applies today. Your anti-war views notwithstanding, DADT repeal benefits the entire gay and bisexual population. By the way, if you read the 1993 DADT law, you'll realize that it was written to target both gay AND bisexual men.
Scott, you've been taken in by anti-Arab propaganda, which tends to flourish more in the United States than in Canada or Europe—for political reasons, I suppose. I teach English as a foreign language here in Fort Lauderdale, but I know many gay male colleagues of mine who've taught in Arab countries, particularly Saudi Arabia, where the pay is high. Businesses in Saudi Arabia that cater to gay/bisexual men cannot publicly advertise as such in the local media, but EVERYONE knows where they are. Private sexual affairs between men are ignored. Based on virtually every account from the Arab countries, Rick wins this argument. The exception is Iraq, which is still in a state of low-level civil war. However, Iraq under Sadam Hussein was as tolerant as other Arab states. In other words, thanks for nothing, George W. Bush.
This is not to say that Israel isn't a good model of democracy for the region, which Rick may disagree with. Corrupt one-party states are the rule in Arab countries, and that doesn't lead to economic prosperity. If Arab countries can't develop a functioning democracy, like Israel has, they need to get their act together. I hope this "Arab Spring" will lead to that.
Posted by: Artie in Lauderdale | Jun 11, 2012 11:30:54 PM