1. says

    I’ve been hearing so many “we need more mental health blah-blah-blahs, not gun control!” from folks who….and let’s be real here…oppose most (all?) forms of universal healthcare.

    ok, so you want better ….um…like, detections and care and checkups for mental illness….how? under what policy? under what plan? do y’all think it’s free?

    at this point i’m frankly stunned that we still have people defending their right to own semi-automatic assault rifles with those big@ss magazines.
    why not stronger checks? stronger regulation? if you’re one of those so-called “responsible gun owners” then you’d have no issues, right?

    the number of gun-related deaths SINCE Newtown…well…it’s disgusting.

  2. Lou says

    That is right we need to do something about the people who use guns to kill others and if you do the research you will find that a lot of these kids and people who get guns and kill others are on psychotropic drugs or seeing some psychotherapist who loads them up with these psychotropic drugs that cause them to go crazy and kill people. Fifty years ago they did not have all of the psychotropic drugs they have today and people had a lot of guns nut they did not have these drugs that make them snap and kill others. The difference is that today the doctors are making a lot of money off of people by telling them they have problems and need to take these psychotropic drugs which makes the pill companies rich but the drugs make the people who take them snap and get a gun and then kill people.

  3. ratbastard says


    Gun violence as we know it today was far less commonplace in the not so distant past than it is today. Why? What has CULTURALLY changed? Stuff like these mass shootings, especially at schools was VERY rare prior to the 90s, and in fact are still statistically rare today. I understand population increases, demographics [large numbers of young people,for example] and all that, but that doesn’t full explain.

    My opinion is there’s a lot of social disconnect and social isolation today, even with smart phones and the internet, and this breeds mental illness and ultimately violence, homicidal and suicidal. I also think there’s too much use of powerful psychiatric drugs in use, and mis-used, especially among kids, teens and young adults. You really won’t see this seriously addressed because so much big $ is involved, far larger than the firearms industry. And out mental health system and care is bad, not to mention most seriously mentally ill people are given at best only out patient ‘community’ care and are simply drugged up.

    Everything I wrote above is commonsense, but doesn’t fit ideological, political and financial interests narratives.

  4. Rob says

    What an amazingly heartfelt and sincere statement. Sadly, you are right Mike & Beef and Fur, that committee wasn’t listening – they just wanted her out of there. BUT!!! – I hope this is shown over & over on news programs and posted on you-tube. Gun control is not going to come from inside Congress, it will only come from massive and unrelenting public demand – this is the kind of thing needed to get that rolling.

  5. says

    …so…will a “responsible gun owner” who owns assault weapons but has, let’s say, a child with some associative-disorder be banned from having assault weapons in the house?

    when people say “we need better mental-health screenings” what do they specifically MEAN? specifically, what kind of screenings in relation to what kind of regulation?

  6. Fensox says

    My awesome gun plan:

    1. Database of all legal guns.
    2. Inventory control with full accountability for companies that make guns. Cars are easier to track than guns…
    3. Unwaveable fee for shooting someone. Accidentally discharge your gun at someone? Fee, no matter what the situation. Cops are involved and you made a big stink by shooting a gun. The only excuse could be self defense but screw that.
    4. Get rid of gun show loophole.
    5. State privatized firearm sales, no mom and pop or walmart.

    Assault rifles need to be gotten rid of, but so does crack. Neither can ever go away until society outgrows its need/lust for it. So keep it legal and accessible so you don’t let black markets and shady dealings obscure your control and sight over the situation.

  7. says

    not bad, Fensox.

    what’s your thinking on “family structures” of gun owners?

    we keep seeing these cases where the gun used in the crime was legally purchased under some other family member’s name.

    i wouldn’t mind holding the registered owner as accountable for the crime as the person who committed it.

  8. ratbastard says

    Mental Illness and the Mental Healthcare ‘Industry’

    People effed up on psychotropic psychiatric ‘meds’

    Social isolation

    THESE are the primary causes of the mass shootings that have occurred especially since the 90s.

    The remainder and vast bulk of violent gun crime and murders occur in dysfunctional and ‘poor’ neighborhoods, cities and towns, often involve gangs and/or drug trafficking, and illicit drug use.

    There is NO EPIDEMIC of violence and gun related murders or even suicides among legal law abiding firearm owners, never has been.

    Extensive and convoluted Firearms Laws, restrictions, even outright bans are about nothing more than CONTROL. Some ‘progressives’ especially consider all firearms owners and anyone interested in firearms as being ‘right wingnuts’, and this is a good way to control, stifle, and denigrate them. And of course MANY firearms owners and those in favor of the second amendment are nor right wingnuts and aren’t homophobic or haters.

  9. RyanInWyo says

    Ratbastard, these things you’ve listed exist in all industrialized nations:
    Mental Illness and the Mental Healthcare ‘Industry’
    People effed up on psychotropic psychiatric ‘meds’
    Social isolation

    What does *not* exist in the rest of all industrialized nations is the high rate of mass shootings and other gun violence that we have in the US.

    Explain, please.

  10. ratbastard says


    Are you in Wyoming? If so, how bad is the violent crime rate on a yearly basis in Wyoming and where you live? I bet it’s NOTHING like, say, Chicago, or Philly, or our nation’s capital, D.C. Why? How’s the violent crime rate, including gun crime and murders committed in the average U.S. town, suburb [removing the high violent crime rates in many urban areas, which affect the over-all curve]? I’ll answer my own question: it’s not bad at all.

    Ryan, if you really studied statistics, including where, why and how most violent crimes are committed, and who are mostly or disproportionately responsible, you’d have a much clearer picture and understanding about what’s really going on. What I just suggested is what is done when studying any problem or issue. But there are many on TR and elsewhere who don’t want to do this and consistently try to deflect any deeper discussion about violence, ‘gun crime’, etc., away from what I suggested above and onto ONLY the issue of gun control. They even mock any attempt to probe more deeply into the issue. Why? What scares them away?

  11. says

    Ratbastard- Alaska and Wyoming, two of our most rural states, have the 2nd and 4th highest firearms death rate.


    Note that the top 20 states are all western or southern states.

    Having a firearm in your home vastly increases the likelihood that a family member or friend will be shot during an argument. It also dramatically increases the rate of suicide- many people survive other suicide attempts, but a bullet through the brain is usually fatal.

  12. RyanInWyo says

    Ratbastard, Wyoming has the lowest density population of nearly any state in the union. 450,000 people (about the population of Sacramento, CA) are spread across nearly 100,000 square miles. It is ranked 49th for population density in the 50 states. So, you want to know about violence here? Well, it’s about the same as anywhere except that just about no one lives here… that kind of acts as its own deterrent, doesn’t it?

    At any rate, you were just going on about these three factors (which can be found listed in comment boards all over the Internet ever since the Newtown massacre):
    Mental Illness and the Mental Healthcare ‘Industry’
    People effed up on psychotropic psychiatric ‘meds’
    Social isolation (by the way, Wyoming has this one IN SPADES)

    Now you think *geography* is the main driver of violence? Do you always change your argument mid-stream or do you just do it when you think it might be useful, based upon someone’s screen name?

    You still haven’t explained why industrialized countries, that have all the same factors you’ve listed, don’t have the gun violence that we have. I suspect you’re not going to explain it because you can’t. And the reason that you can’t is that there is absolutely no proof – unless you think anonymous comments on the Internet count as proof – that those factors that you listed have anything to do with our gun violence problem.

  13. Fensox says

    Kiwi, Probably a huge fine or felony for not properly registering the gun. All you would have to do is just change the name and have the new person go through all the checks. Compound that if the gun was fired while not registered.

    Make firing a gun not worth it.

  14. says

    i’ve heard many suggest something, that i’m sure many anti-regulation folks would consider too invasive and overreaching, which would require either inspection or regulated “gun storage”, if you will.

    as in, what weapons do you have, how are they stored, and who would potentially have access to them.

    i dunno. you wanna own assault rifles? you claim to be a responsible owner? prove it. and prove that your entire family is going to be responsible, too.

  15. Derrick from Philly says

    Thanks, JHT & RYANINWYO. So, even folks who are not in the inner-city (those of the darker variety) will commit gun violence if they have guns.

    Who’d of ever thunk it, Ratbastard? Violence with such…such…well, DEMOGRAPHICS (if I never hear that word again I’ll be just fine)

  16. ratbastard says


    What is there OVERALL murder rate? Proportionate to the population? Is Wyoming a ‘dangerous ‘ state like , say, Chicago has some VERY dangerous neighborhoods?

    That they have a high rate of deaths caused by firearms is just a part of a bigger picture; it’s like when someone points out that suicide is the highest or second highest form of death among a certain demographic, what they usually don’t point out is that demographic has an overall very low death rate from diseases, violence, accidents, and so-on. And suicides are still far from the norm for any demographic in the U.S.

    Also, yes, geography in a way does matter, because certain demographics prone to have unusually high rates of violence, violent gun related crime, are also prone to congregating in high n umbers in certain geographical areas. CT is less than 100 miles from where I am right now. CT is one of the wealthiest if not the wealthiest overall state in the country, certainly in the top 3. It’s a ‘progressive’ state, and was often derogatorily referred to has a state full of ‘limousine liberals’ in the past before liberals re-branded themselves as ‘progressives’. CT has beautiful suburbs and small wealthy towns…and it’s urban areas and cities are all pits, with terrible violent crime rates.


    Good luck with that. You obviously don’t have a firm grasp on reality if you think we can turn the U.S. into a huge version of England.

  17. David R. says

    Require gun owners to carry insurance for each firearm, just like cars. Then the insurance companies will make sure the dangerous folks will be priced out of the market and everyone will be more thoughtful about buying more and more.

  18. ratbastard says

    @Derrick from Philly,

    YES, of course non-black people can and do commit violence, crime and murder people using firearms. I NEVER made any claim otherwise. What I have pointed out is, violence is OFF THE HOOK proportionate to other areas of the country and among other demographics, in ‘inner city’ urban majority minority neighborhoods, even whole cities. Please…don’t try and debate this or deny it, it’s a FACT. There are many reasons why this is the case, but at the end of the day, it’s a hard fact. Mass shootings like at Sandy Hook are not the norm by any stretch, and are even in 2012 – 2013 still statistically rate and a blip on the overall violent crime radar screen.

    Most of the violence the U.S is know for especially since the 1960s is based on broken and dysfunctional homes, lousy economic prospects for people poorly educated or those who don’t apply themselves, a broken mental health system, a multi-generational ‘lifestyle’ that revolves around ignorance, violence, and crime, and a society that tolerates it as long as it doesn’t directly affect them, and a society that has overall grown more coarse and anti-social.

  19. ratbastard says

    @Lil’ C*unt,

    How many people, HOW MANY CHILDREN no less, have been murdered, mostly by illegal firearms, in just a handful of American urban areas over say the last 6 months? How many of the victims were ‘minority’? How many of the perps were ‘minority’? What’s the percentage [check the FBI and DOJ crime statistics and individual city homicide maps] of ‘old white guys with guys’ [or anything else who commit murders vs say young black males? This is real easy,Lil’ C*unt… even you can figure it out. Though of course you’re also dishonest and disingenuous.

    How many murders occurred today in America, a country of 315 million plus people? Anybody want to guess where most of those murders occurred and who and why they were committed? C’mon…it’s a sucker’s bet.

  20. ratbastard says

    And how many innocent white men are killed from bottoming for big black penises, like my father? An innocent man is gone because black men penetrated him too roughly. And the worst part is that I know he doesn’t miss me one bit.

  21. David Hearne says

    Kiwi – because the Constitution says that the right of the people (individual people) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. I know that doesn’t mean anything in Canada because you don’t have a constitution, but we do. You can pass a law that takes away your rights. Our civil rights are protected and considered unalienable.

  22. David Hearne says

    Suicide is irrelevant. Notice how the lying liars like to blur definitions? They come up with BS like “gun deaths” or “gun violence”. Another of their favorites is “food insecurity” and “undocumented workers”. Seriously, I can’t believe that the media is stupid enough to use these terms.

  23. says

    @ Ratbastard – do you ever get the feeling that you’re pissing into the wind? I’ve tried for two months to make the very same points you’ve made here, as well as advancing several very do-able, Constitutionally adherent, and effective proposals for regulation. Most of the responses I’ve gotten are the usual blind, barking at the dog-whistle bullsh*t that LittleKiwi is famous for, or the blind emotional “I don’t want an intelligent discussion of the violence issue, I just want my candy and I WANT IT NOW” hit-the-panic-button like we see from everyone – Mrs. Giffords included – who say we must “DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN!” What I want to know is, when are Kiwi, Giffords, half of MSNBC and the majority of the Beltway talking heads going to come out from behind the corpses of these children and have an intelligent, scientifically relevant, factually based conversation with those of us who refuse to follow like the rest of the sheep?

    *Cue the Kiwi mindless vitriolic rant in 3…2…1…*

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