1. Jack M says

    It’s not about freedom, it’s about equality.

    To say gay people have “won” because we have framed the issue as the right to freedom is lazy and sloppy thinking.

  2. CAM says

    I’m going to assume that the digital wizards behind Avatar made this hyper-real version of Glenn Beck and pulled this together… or this is the same folks that gave up holographic Tupac?

  3. MikeKV says

    @Jack M : “To say gay people have “won” because we have framed the issue as the right to freedom is lazy and sloppy thinking.”

    Did you *really* expect anything less from Beck (let alone anyone else on ‘the right’)?

  4. Dastius Krazitauc says

    But Jack M, “freedom” is a word that works with conservatives, “equality” is not. If more conservatives can support gay rights with that thinking, then that can only be good, regardless if you consider it lazy and sloppy.

  5. TampaZeke says

    I don’t take offense to framing the issue as a matter of “freedom”. It IS a matter of freedom. ALL issues of equality are, at their heart, a matter of freedom.

    I agree with Dastius 100% on this. Let conservatives support us in their own way and in their own language. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. We may despise everything that Glen Beck stands for, and I certainly do, but I realize that he is a powerful force in conservative circles and his support is a REALLY big deal.

    Welcome on board the gay freedom train Mr. Beck. I think you jump on board to avoid being run over but I’m glad you’re on board regardless.

    We truly have won.

    I can’t wait to see Rush Limbaugh attack Glen Beck. Conservative infighting is fun.

  6. Tyler says

    I’ll take freedom – it’s a great and wonderful word, and something that this nitwit (who has rare moments of lucidity) has been harping about for years. Personally, I don’t want to be “equal” to anyone else, I want the freedom to pursue my own dreams and aspirations without government hindrance – and that applies to who I will marry.

  7. Francis #1 says

    Not too dissimilar to what O’Reilly said. Let’s not pretend these men are suddenly in our corner. But what’s clear is they see the writing on the wall too, that we’re winning and Steve is right, the right-wing’s attacks against us have caught up with them.

  8. Jack M says

    To me, what Beck is saying is gays have won the debate by putting the issue under the banner of freedom, rather than something more accurate. He is implying that we have portrayed the struggle for equality as the struggle for freedom, and that we have been sly and clever (and deceptive) in our arguments.

  9. JD says

    Isn’t equality simply ensuring everyone has the same freedoms? But maybe I’m just not looking for reasons to be mad at someone.

    The problem here is why is there a need to keep hating on people who have either relented in the fight or even all out changed sides.

  10. Don says

    Sorry Mr. Beck, you are still wrong. It’s not just about freedom. Freedom and equality are not the same thing. I am free to love who I love. That freedom was guaranteed when the SCOTUS struck down Texas’ anti-sodomy laws. That still left us with the issue of inequality.

    Black Americans were given their freedom with the Emancipation Proclamation. It wasn’t until the 1964’s civil rights act that they were given equality status.

  11. coexxi says

    @JackM: I also understand it the way you do.

    Him saying: “They made it about… bla bla..”
    tells more about his thinking than anything else. He doesn’t understand that there is no “they” but an us, as in humankind.

  12. Jack says

    @Jack M: Deception, no. He is completely sincere, both that the core principle is right and true — and that we were smart to put it to conservatives that way, because that is something they simply cannot deny without being hypocritical, something no one likes being, stupid or otherwise.

    He is absolutely right, and we should stand up and cheer for him saying it, to those hardcore cases no gay person will be able to reach. To find fault with him, is counterproductive and — from a strategic point of view, if nothing else — downright dumb.

  13. says

    we’ve “won” (or, um, are going to eventually win) because there isn’t a single intelligent argument in existence to continue justifying discrimination against us.

  14. Caliban says

    Look, I can’t stand Glenn Beck and think he’s quite possibly mentally ill and dangerous with his bunker mentality, but he’s conceding that we’re right. Yes there is a difference freedom and equality, but as others have said there is a difference between conservative and liberal uses of language. In my experience conservatives are more black/white thinkers without a lot of nuance and tend more toward broad, “bumper sticker” thinking.

    That’s why Fox News is so powerful and successful. “This is scary! This is bad!” They rarely dabble in any of that boring and confusing nuance stuff, they just make pronouncements.

  15. simon says

    I think he has a valid point that you can’t argue against something new just because it has always been like that. The so called 2000 years of traditional marriage argument is losing.

  16. Betty Treacle says

    These bigots have seen the writing on the wall and they know that in just a few years they will be remembered alongside the pro-slavery lobby. Their lack of foresight is only outdone by their small-mindedness.

  17. Eddie says

    I’m a little wary of all the “Gay People have Won” statements. We haven’t “won” anything yet, the Supreme Court hasn’t ruled and most states in this country still do not allow same sex marriages.

  18. lewlew says

    It should be about freedom. It should be about liberty. It should be about personal choice. Back in the gay lib days, it was. That’s why people used the word ‘preference.’

    Libertarians should be actively on the side of marriage equality — because we all should be free to do what we choose, so long as others’ rights are not trampled.

    But the “born this way” argument won the day, because that makes it a civil rights issue. I say, whatever works. And by the way, they are homophobes, and one of those is a bigot.

  19. Jeff says

    The writing on the wall is apparent. Regardless of how the Supreme Court rules late June, same sex marriage is coming to a court house near you.

    There are some conservatives who are at least smart enough to see this. It does not really matter which words they choose, nor if they agree. But to at least acknowledge the fact that the biggest part of the battle is now over, is a major concession to us. At least there are these few who are not in denial, and admit they lost. This shows some maturity imo.

  20. Fred says

    Glenn Beck is mentally ill. I don’t care what he has to say.

    Be that as it may, Conservatives that do not support our equality are rapidly becoming aware that we are not AS “free” as they are, and are no longer going to accept this, and have made progress convincing people that not only should we not accept it, that they should assist us in securing freedoms they take fro granted.

    Now, some Conservatives are perfectly fine with making this all about us not deserving the freedoms they do, because we can supposedly change, and are bad and dirty. They’ve hung their future on the lies told about us continuing to be accepted by enough of a percentage of the American public, and the need for one of the last remaining scapegoats, to be enough to prop-up their flailing political careers.

    And in some states this is definitely the case, the surveys for some states support of same sex couples rights are just horrible.

    We DID make it about freedom. It took DECADES of hard work within our own communities to no longer accept second-class citizenship. How soon people forget that most gay people didn’t care about gay servicepeople and Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, or later, same sex marriage. Not at first. It took a long time to consider ourselves “equal”.

  21. David Hearne says

    The GOP is figuring out that all they have to do to get a majority in both houses and to take the white house is move the gay vote over from center left to center right.

    With the Democrats waging war on the First and Second AMendment, it won’t be difficult for them to lose the middle.