Comments

  1. d says

    i think he’s taking things a little too far… i mean, people are attracted to what they are attracted to. if you prefer guys who are “masculine”, that’s your right to be. “be masculine” is implying that they want to have sex with or meet guys they define as masculine… aka are attracted to. he’s reading it as a demand, when i think its really just stating a preference…

    i’m all for people being who they want to be… however they define it… but don’t get angry when you being you doesn’t meet someone else’s standards of attraction.

    he’s right about being yourself and you’ll find someone who loves you exactly as you are.

  2. says

    We all know what “masculine” is code for: residual self-loathing. There’s too much of that floating around, and there are plenty of bromos to play with their trucks in the sandbox. But there’s only one Ryan James Yezac, and be your fine self.

  3. Jonathan says

    This and other queens who get offended by people saying they are only interested in guys who are masculine or straight acting need to get over themselves and stop being so easily offended. If you don’t like a guy who wants that in a guy he dates or hookups with, then don’t message or talk to him.

  4. Jerry says

    Sex apps are for trashy behavior…we’ve all used it for that.. Stop acting like you’re “networking” for your career or whatever unless your career is knob polishing.

  5. Henry Holland says

    Made it through 25 seconds of that annoying editing style.

    “but don’t get angry when you being you doesn’t meet someone else’s standards of attraction”

    Yep.

  6. Luke says

    His point is that the word “masculinity” is fraught. What does it mean to state a preference/requirement for masculine men? Aren’t all gay men by default non-masculine because they aren’t straight (if we think of heterosexuality as a masculine quality, which most people do)?

  7. says

    A masculine facade that a self hating gay guy uses is no different than a flamboyant facade an insecure gay guy uses. It will take equal parts:

    Tolerance: People are how they are and most words used to describe them are loose and subjective, like masc, etc.

    Acceptance: That people will also like who they like and to be ok with that. Do not internalize the rejection and become a counter to a perceived force, that’s silly. (Kiwi fits this bill, and I bet he isn’t rejected much, but never the less internalizes rejection when he perceives it.)

    Growth: All parties need to always remember that they are total idiots that arent even sure how or why they like things. IE: Force yourself to find attraction in places you previously decided are unattractive. Attraction like music is a subjective thing in your brain, you can make yourself like any song just like you can make yourself attracted to flamboyant guys, black guys, asian guys, trans guys. These things are decisions you make and then do not confront, just confront them and you will open up and have a waaay bigger dating pool.

  8. Zlick says

    It’s a good point, from a laughable starting place (“be masculine” in a hook-up ad is NOT the social indictment he’s ranting against), and most of all – REALLY? – is that kind of crazed video style appealing to anyone??

    I don’t think it was particularly fitting to the subject matter, and I don’t think that works even for the supposed ADHD generation (which I presume is the demographic of the grindr clientele).

  9. Chaz says

    The truth will set you free. And that goes for all those miserable heterosexual men, too. It’s not about the gays: it’s about you, guys: you CAN be happy too.

  10. crispy says

    I’m tired of all my friends being on Grindr.

    Betch, I didn’t invite you out and buy you a cocktail so you could bury your face in a smart phone the whole time.

  11. Francis #1 says

    The larger point is that a lot of gay and bisexual men are obsessed with validating themselves as men (hence the obsession with ‘masculinity’) because of the continuing prevailing view that being gay makes one less of a man. On the flip side, a lot of more feminine gay men feel the need to put on an act because they’ve been forcefed stereotypes that being a caricature who acts like a 12 year old girl is what being a gay man is.

    In general, the paranoia and obsession with being accepted/validated by STRAIGHT people is pretty strong in the LGBT community by and large. If you’re masculine, great, if you’re feminine, cool. If your entire identity is based on you seeing yourself or being masculine/feminine, then you have some issues to address. If you feel the need to put down others because they don’t live to what you believe they should as LGBT person should lead, then you have issues to address. Be yourself, be comfortable in who you are, and don’t place rules on others.

  12. James says

    He can rant all he likes. Effeminacy isn’t an attractive quality in a man to the vast majority of people – gay, straight, male or female. No amount of ranting and raving will change that. A small percentage of gay men do find it an attractive quality, so he should seek out those few people.

    Also, why does a guy who cares about gay equality use an app that commercializes and commodifies gay sexuality? He seems to be pretty clueless about what genuine gay equality would look like.

  13. Jesse says

    So trite.

    Yeah, it’s awful to be held to a masculinity standard, but it’s a hookup app — not a social justice app. Screeching about how awful people are won’t change them. Focus on having flings with decent people and move along from those masculinity demanding folks. Pretty simple.

    That is unless you secretly only want those butch guys too, but they reject you, so you find a way to reject them back?

  14. KidJ/NYU says

    Francis #1,

    You are invalidating the masculinity of gay men every time you use the phrase LGBT people. That term which implies that gay men are, at a defining level, linked to transsexuals and crossdressers. I know you mean no harm and probably use it because lots of people do and because it is supposedly a progressive term. But it is actually very reactionary. “LGBT people” perpetuates the very stereotypes that you claim to oppose.

  15. says

    Nothing wrong with being fem and nothing wrong with being a normal guy either! I love fem dudes and I love normal acting guys too!

    Different strokes for different folks people! Some guys are lacking in masculinity and if they can’t fix the problem, they need to be accepted anyway!

  16. Asher says

    It’s always amazing to me that so many people are so quick to chalk up their internalized homophobia (and racism and other forms of prejudice) as merely “preference.”

    Have you never been curious or introspective enough to wonder why your “preferences” are what they are? Have you not made the connection that you are simply mirroring the prejudices of society at large? Do you not understand that when you prefer “masculine” guys, you are acting on your own self-loathing and internalized homophobia?

    As for me, I just can’t stupid people–and most of you seem to fit into that category–but hey, don’t fault me–it’s just my personal preference!!!

  17. says

    it really should be “mask for mask” – considering it’s almost-always the Faceless Wonders, boasting of their masculinity.

    for what it’s worth, you cannot be “masculine” and “discreet” (or discrete, as many a plebe insist on typing…)

    discretion is for wimps with no orbs.

    i’ve got a collection of these wimp losers, and it’s only growing.

    nothing says “I’m not worth knowing” than being a grown-@ss man who doesn’t have it in him to check himself, get over his internalized homophobia, and start embracing his fellow Brothers

    Masc? fem? who the heck even CARES about these concepts other than insecure gay men who still base their manliness through the prism of anti-gay heterosexuality?

    *barf*

    http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/09/carrying-self-hatred-into-adulthood.html

    http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2012/10/yeah-you-sound-totally-well-adjusted.html

    http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2012/06/straight-is-not-compliment.html

    there’s three examples of many. have at it, haters.

  18. Lucas H says

    How naive can some people be?! I know sometimes you’re bored and just want to chat with different people, but Grindr IS primarily a hookup app, so you kinda need to know that going in and get over it. Use the block button and forget it.

  19. says

    my fave thing about this discussion is when the wimps try to turn it into “what do you have against masculinity?”

    NOTHING – says everyone. because it’s not about that. at all. it’s about the pathetic insecurity that exists in far too many gay men, who are complete whipped by anti-gay straight society into being TERRIFIED that they’ll be perceived as “not masculine”

    MASC is like COOL: to be it, one must first stop hoping that people think that you are it.

    and if you were actually “masc”, you likely wouldn’t have had to tell me.

    telling someone you’re masculine is just a way of saying “i really worry about what others think”
    not a terribly “masc” trait, bro.

    but hey, this reality will be ignored by the self-styled bro-dudes. oh well. i gave up that nonsense more than a decade ago.

  20. justin says

    On a hook up site, I have always felt it meant:

    It is a guy that is able to blend without strangers raising an eye brow when the guy is seen or heard. Usually for purposes of digression.

    It is the visual/audio appearance of strength and confidence. It is a man with a minimal about of feminine characterisctics a guy will peronally tolerate.

    Examples of non masculine for me:
    1. A purse falls out of their mouth when they speak.
    2. They swish so much that doing everyday errands is like working a runway.

  21. tykoto says

    As a wise friend once told me…

    “If you’re ordering guys to hook up with off a sex app or Craigslist — then you get to order that pizza however you want it because you’re looking to have a specific experience.”

  22. says

    Justin, how about you provide a video example of yourself so we can see exactly what you mean.

    after all, you’re a totally confident secure masculine gay man who has no problems being openly-gay on the world wide web, right?

    because, you know, strength and confidence don’t mean a “purse doesn’t fall out of your mouth”, its more about having the balls to not care what society thinks about you.
    can we see you, Justin, or are you an insecure non-confident non-masc swish of a boy?

  23. disgusted american says

    well its just like str8 guys – some want women who liek toget dirty, some like girly girls…some want bubbleheads, and some wants strong forceful women…..same with gay guys, its all in individual tastes.

  24. says

    KIDJ?NYU – you’re a complete moron. it’s ok. there are many of you out there.

    LGBT = those outside the perceived norm, united together, supporting each other, because there’s strength in numbers.

    you show me a gay man who rejects “LGBT”, and i’ll show you a brutal wimp who utterly lacks a spine.

  25. says

    Here is a thing, define feminine behavior in men. I feel like a lot of people are complaining about camp and flamboyant behavior.

    For instance, I hate people who say ‘fierce’ in any sort of colloquial way, but it doesn’t matter if that guy is masculine or feminine, that’s a behavior trait I don’t like. Is it highly dramatized and over the top actions? Also behavioral! Lets take the show Happy Endings, the Max character could be called masculine because most people seem to equate that with straight acting (And since he is straight, he hits it on the head) where as the other gay character in the show “Derrick” is flamboyant and obviously gay. So is he unattractive because of his behavior, his look or what?

    My main thing for a guy where I am gonna sex him up is for him to be interesting when not sexing him up, the sexing is really not that long (Like what, 2 hours tops, 30 min min).

  26. Francis #1 says

    To the troll KIDJ/NYU above who responded to me, and uses so many usernames denigrating trans persons that obviously, we’ve all lost count….being anti-transgender does not make you a man, you’re not doing a service to LGB people by being anti-trans, and there are very valid reasons with the T is linked with LGB.

    The funny thing is that 95% of gay men are simply EASY to point out to anyone with any functioning gaydar. You might be masculine, but you’re still gay. The same goes for bisexual men too. You’re not fooling people. You’re not straight acting because straight isn’t an act. To most straight people, you’ll never be masculine, no matter how thick your beard is or how developed your muscles are. For many gay/bi men, it is just a preference, preference for masculine guys, but these men don’t have any issue with fem men whatsoever.

    For many others, it’s homophobia and also heterosexism and gay/bi guys basically allowing themselves to, as Asher put above, internalize what our society constantly throws out in regards to gender stereotypes. Many gay/bi guys eat it up because they are desperate for validation and to distance themselves from the “you’re not a real man” prejudice from straights. And in doing that, these men attack fem gays. And then get defensive when called out on it.

    The long and short of it is, according to societal rules, none of us are real men, because we like other men. And the reality is that a major percentage of gay and bisexual men do NOT have the same traits, interests and/or behaviors compared to the average straight man. That’s the real long and short of it, although some constantly try to pretend otherwise out of shame, embarrassment and internalized homophobia and femphobia.

  27. says

    here’s a link that’ll piss of the self-styled “i’m not into fems” cowards:

    http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2010/02/boys-men-masc-femme.html

    The Boys in the Band. 1969. and look! all these decades and idiot cowards like “Alan” still exist.

    time to be the men you pretend you are, stop worrying about what Idiots think, and live your life on your own terms.

    you show me an anti-fem gay man and i’ll show you a guy who never grew the spine to stand up to the bigoted males in his own family.

  28. tom says

    In what universe would someone/anyone find that clown-like behavior even remotely attractive? It’s not even “effeminate”, it’s some kind of weird affectation that is extremely annoying.

  29. Francis #1 says

    Oh, and Grindr sucks, as has been said above. Don’t be surprised that you read trash when you use a website where a lot of trashy people congregate and seek other trash.

  30. Francis #1 says

    I agree, Tom, the fake OTT intentionally stereotypical caricatured behavior is very annoying. But those types and the dude bro types are one in the same. They’re both trying to fit an image to get attention and be accepted and validated, usually by straight people. Those on either extreme are people to ignore.

  31. Derrick from Philly says

    @ “where as the other gay character in the show “Derrick” is flamboyant and obviously gay”

    FENROX, I didn’t know there is a TV show based on ME. I must see it one day, and get me lawyer.

    But I bet this flaming Derrick character is FIERCE!!!!

    It’s Friday, people. :-) Let it loose.

  32. says

    Francis – you touch on a great point, as usual. many insecure gay idiots think “effeminate” means “obviously gay”

    NOPE.

    you can be 100% obviously, visibly, identifiably gay and not be, you know, “effeminate” –

    stereotypically gay? archetypically gay? i prefer to call myself, for example, “Classically Gay” 😀

    am i effeminate? to many people’s standards, i likely am. not that it’s held me back in life, nor has it made me shrink away into the darkness.
    and what, pray tell, does masculine even mean?

    i don’t think you can be considered “masculine” as a gay man, unless you’re 100% Out to the world. unless you consider insecurity a masculine trait.

    nor do i even think the opposite of masculinity is femininity. the opposite of being a man is being a BOY. boys lie and give excuses for things. men stand up to be counted.

    the reason this debate is so irritating is that the people who are wrong don’t want to be wrong, yet utterly are.

    they like to turn it into “oh, you’re just jealous of me! you’re just not as masc! you just hate masc guys!”

    why on earth be jealous of your kind? you’re not masculine. you still live in fear of what Straight People Think. bro, that ain’t masc. it’s also NOT “fem” – it’s merely wimpery at it’s most pathetic state.

  33. jjose712 says

    Preferences (for a hook up, and that’s a grindr is about) are just that, preferences.
    Some people are only atracted to tall guys, but that doesn’t mean he hates or dislikes short guys, only mean that they don’t atract him.

    The rest is just reading too much

  34. says

    UFFDA, such an issue will never arise. You’ll never date anyone. You’re one of Society’s Unfortunates. Guys like you exist to hate everything on the internet because your balls never dropped. Just so we’re clear, the reason your family never loved you was not because you’re gay, but because you’re such a complete wimp about it.

    with love, Raymond. 😀

  35. Jack says

    Francis#1 said:

    “The long and short of it is, according to societal rules, none of us are real men, because we like other men.”

    Thanks Francis. You just proved my point. You are a self-hating gay man. You see yourself as a fake man, a not-real man, because you are gay. That is why you use “LGBT people” – because in fact, you do see yourself as akin to a man who who is sort-of-a-woman. You make a nod to some unspecified “societal rules” but then you embrace those very rules as your own, defining yourself by them.

    LGBT is an inherently anti-gay concept. It is reactionary and promotes oppression. And you have illustrated in stark, candid terms why that is.

  36. says

    prove that you’re a “real man” by showing yourself online, Jack. or just do what you usually, change screen names to pretend you have an army of fellow-cowards supporting you, post some nonsense under my name, and continue proving to everyone that the biggest favor you could do for the gay community would be to chug a bottle of Dran-o.

    I’m a gay man who since his teens has openly and proudly stood shoulder to shoulder with my brothers and sisters: gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, transitioning, gender-queer, etc.

    because that’s what real men do. they support each other. and they stand with their brothers and sisters.

  37. says

    define “fem” , Zlick.

    that’s the thing. orientations are innate. concepts of attraction are learned.

    you wanna know why a lot of guys aren’t “into fems”? because they were conditioned by society to think those guys are lesser. and “fem” is not a THING – it’s an amorphous concept.

    the good news: guys who don’t understand this end up alone. so yay 😀

  38. KidJ/NYU says

    Jack, I think Francis was talking to me, but I agree with everything you said. It is hard for me to fathom how any gay man can walk around and believe the sorts of things that Francis believes about himself and not try to off himself. Francis, stop hating yourself. Stop believing that you are less than a man. Stop equating yourself with transsexuals. It isn’t 1940 anymore.

    Little Kiwi,

    I have no idea what a “brutal wimp” is, but I am neither brutal nor a wimp. I am an out, proud gay man, a student in my 3rd year at NYU in NYC. I have lots of friends, gay and straight and I am out to them all as well as my family. I don’t know why you feel the need to denigrate gay people that you have never even met.

    I have no problem supporting trans people or being friends with them. I do not think that justifies altering the name and identity of gay people to assert that we are “one people” with them. I love Canada and have a friend in Toronto. That doesn’t make me a Canadian, nor does it justify inventing some new term like “USCanadian people”.

    Also, if LGBT is just a tactical move, to get “strength in numbers” then it is a disaster for gay people, since there are very few trans people in the world. If increasing numbers is the goal, it would make far more sense for LGBs to merge with mainland China or India. And it would make just as much logical sense as merging with straight transsexuals, hermaphrodites and crossdressers.

    Obviously, LGBT is not a “strength in numbers” bid. It is an effort by ideologues to warp the gay civil rights movement into a social war on the concept of gender and the “gender binary.” And it uses foul, ancient stereotypes about gay people to do it.

  39. Moz's says

    there is a point that masculine just IS

    those who spout ‘masculine….be masculine” tend to be the most effeminate bottoms no matter how big their muscles

    Masculine guys just are masculine

    reality/ truth just IS without need for advertising

    Anyway; grinder is the wrong place to carry on some social justice crusade. Its a hook up site not even a facebook esque social site. Its purely for hookups not making friends

  40. JY says

    Amazing how many queeny guys accuse guys who just aren’t into their demeaner as “living in denial” or “self hating.” Sorry, but maybe the guy just isn’t into you, and perhaps it’s the attitude that’s the problem.

  41. d says

    i find it weird that some people equate “masculine” with self-hating…

    i grew up playing sports and enjoying traditionally “masculine” things… that doesn’t mean i somehow hate myself for being gay… any more than a fem guy’s love for fashion, art, etc means he hates being a man…

    if the moral of the story is “just be who you are”… the everybody just shut up and be who you are.

  42. says

    I’d love for you to back that up, Kid, with providing us with a link to your blog or youtube page. Anything less would be decidedly un-masc, bro. 😀

    I’ll denigrate a wimp like you any day of the week. If you need to throw transpeople or gender-nonconformists under the bus in order to earn the pithy tolerance of your family, then you’re a sad excuse for a man.

    bring it.
    heck i’m NYC. we could meet up for a coffee right now 😀

  43. Derrick from Philly says

    Oh, for God’s sake. Francis #1 did not say that he believed he was less than a man. He’s saying that the homophobes and haters of Transgender folk believe that Gay men are less than “real” men. That’s what the two groups definitely have in common–we’re hated by the same ignorant motha’ f.ckas.

    I did not intend to get serious this afternoon.

  44. says

    JY, congrats on proving me right. you do that evasive nonsense because you dont’ want to address real issues.

    at no point has anyone stated “masculine guys hate themselves” – it’s the nonsensical insecure self-styled self-professed culture of “masc” that shows that these insecure gay boys are in fact NOT the masculine men then want to be: they’re afraid that people will think they’re not.

    here’s a fun game: can ANY of the self-styled, self-professed “masculine non-fem non-stereotypical” gay men posting on this thread provide a link to their own blog, youtube page, youtube channel?

    For ONCE, i’d like to see it happen. so far, it never has.

    come on. show us that masculine man you think you are 😀

  45. Lille says

    Asher

    Thanks for lecturing everyone about how their preferences for a romantic or sexual partner are merely concealed prejudices and discrimination.

    Now please explain to us why aren’t you dating disabled women in their 80s? Do you admit that you are a sexist, ableist and ageist pig? And if so, why don’t you heed the old saying, physician heal thyself?

  46. Zlick says

    And what is UP with Kiwi’s insistence that everyone have a blog or a YouTube channel?? WTF? Not everyone is such an attention whore. And there are plenty of very proud, helpful, intelligent, honest, nurturing, generous, strong people who are not the attention whore types who would typically have a blog or a YouTube channel about THEMSELVES.

  47. Moz's says

    LOL @ “Can someone please check on Rick? I think he’s dead.”

    Thank you, MARC C.

    Posted by: Derrick from Philly | Aug 9, 2013 3:12:21 PM

    ditto LOL

  48. KidJ/NYU says

    Little Kiwi,

    I am not sure why I would want to have coffee with a guy who at least 4 times has encouraged gay people to kill themselves by shooting themselves in the head with a shotgun or drinking Drano or hanging themselves. And those are just the ones on this site and only the ones I happened to see. I don’t think you are playing with a full deck and I fear that you may end up harming someone. So no, I won’t have coffee with you unless you are secured in a padded room.

    I don’t know what “pithy tolerance” means any more than I know what a “brutal wimp” is. I think you may be having a stroke and are spewing word salad. However, if it makes you feel any better, I don’t need to win anyone’s pithy tolerance. I am fully accepted, not tolerated but embraced, by my family and friends.

    And as I explained above, it is not throwing trans people under any bus to simply say that I am not trans and that gay and trans are not part of one people. We can be friends and allies but that doesn’t make us one people any more than having Canadian friends makes me Canadian or some hybrid “USCanadian.”

    I don’t think that you really think much about these issues; you just emote and insult and attack. Why are so insecure about critically evaluating your assumptions?

  49. Francis #1 says

    Thank you, Derrick, for shutting down the trolls as you do so well. And Kiwi your posts are on point as always.

    No-one is attacking masculine guys. I like sports, I like working out, I like cars. I like traditional “guy” stuff. But that’s just it…I like traditional guy stuff. Whatever. It doesn’t make me any less gay. It doesn’t mean that the guy who isn’t into sports or cars at all is somehow less of a man than me. Because masculinity, and what being “a man” entails, aren’t stupid things like whether you know all 32 NFL football teams.

    Being an advocate and supporter of my trans brothers and sisters, a large percentage of whom are not straight, doesn’t mean I think of myself as less of a man. It means I support people who, at the end of the day, are fighting a fight that is pretty damn similar to the one gay men fight daily. And that is, as a society, being gay means automatically you are NOT a real man or masculine in the eyes of at least 50% of straight people. The same way well over half of society do not see trans men or trans women as actual men/women.

    Stop basing your views on masculinity, femininity on what our patriarchal, heterosexist, homophobic society decrees, is what I am saying. Because being gay, you automatically do not qualify. Instead of buying into said stereotypes and allowing them to shape your ways of thinking and preferences, be yourself as GAY, as BISEXUAL, as whoever you are. Let others be themselves and live their lives how they see fit. If you like masculine guys and are not into feminine guys sexually, that’s fine, until you start bashing feminine guys to justify your preferences. That shows your preferences are really based on negative biases you should be eschewing.

    Cause at the end of the day, neither one of you are straight.

  50. says

    i’m a gay man. an ignorant prejudiced society still promotes prejudice and discrimination against me

    i am not a trans person. however, transgendered people also are persecuted, demeaned, denigrated and discriminated against by an ignorant and prejudiced society.

    so we stand together. we’re stronger together.

    KID, i call your bluff. :-)
    but don’t worry about not proving me wrong. your kind never does, and never will. because you can’t. and that’s ok.

  51. jexer says

    What a self-indulgent trip up Molehill Mountain.

    Complaining about ‘be masculine’ on grindr is like going into the back room of a bath house, so you can “talk about your feelings”.

    Wrong attitude, wrong venue. Quit complaining and go find a better venue to serve your interests. Or create one.

  52. says

    I think “be masculine” sounds less offensive than “no fems” or any of the multitude of far meaner ways to express the idea that the person writing the profile wants to hookup with someone on the butch side.

    I’m not saying such “requirements” are good bad or ugly – but people like what they like, and that simply isn’t going to change. The impersonal nature of hookup aps, and sites lets someone hand pick their exact type.

    The dating technology from Logan’s Run is here.

  53. Zlick says

    Oh, and I don’ know why my comment was deleted, and now this is 20 comments too late, but I was referring to YOUR use of the term “fem,” Little Kiwi, so why don’t you go ahead and define it?

  54. Fiveht says

    It’s an excuse to start the conversation, I don’t think he specifically cares about “be masc” on Grindr, but about society’s thoughts on masculinity in general.

    I think the “masc” guy-seekers also ignore that everyone ignores that every culture and time considers different things masculine and effeminate. I get the feeling that in the US douchey bros are their ideal man?

  55. says

    no idea, Zlick.

    i’m a happy, empowered openly-gay man. i have no idea what Masc or fem even means anymore. it seems that only people who still worry about what others think care about those terms, and define them in ways that, forgive me, but i’m far too intelligent to care about.

    closeted guys think “fem” means “people can tell you’re gay”

    semi-out guys think “fem” means “you listen to lady gaga”

    and the world of out and empowered gay men with spines sit back wondering when the heck that crowd will just get over their insecurities rather than giving daily excuses for keeping them.

    not my problem. my balls dropped long ago.

  56. Chaz says

    I don’t mind femmy guys as long as they are not cruel, shallow, self-loathing or overly bitchy. Masculine of feminine, I like a man to have depth, integrity and strong self-esteem without being arrogant or horribly vain.

  57. Paul R says

    Jeez, a silly video has sent half the posters into a tizzy. Who cares what someone posts on a hookup site? I’ve never used a hookup site because I don’t enjoy sex with someone I haven’t met at least briefly first. I just assume that you never know what you’re getting (newsflash: people lie) and that it’s a risky proposition on several levels. But if that’s your thing, fine by me.

    I’ve always assumed that half the people who demand masculine guys are closet cases, which is why they’re using Grindr or similar sites in the first place.

    This video actually makes some decent points near the end, but I’m sure he loses a large chunk of his audience before that.

  58. Zlick says

    I think he loses the audience more for the frenetic style of the video than for using the Grindr example as jumping-off point for a legitimate item of consideration and discussion.

    I’ve been a little blithe myself in limiting this to the hook-up world, but I truly feel that’s where the demarcation line is. I can’t say I approve of people being demeaning or cruel on a hook-up site, but I think there’s leeway to specify what it is you’re looking for … um, in a situation totally foreign to me where you’re going to meet a total stranger for intimate sex.

    The problem lies when this attitude gets more wide-ranging, and gays demean certain types of people outside of the sex-hook-up realm. Let’s face it, gays – generally speaking – can be a cruel, craven, mean-spirited, self-absorbed, and bitchy bunch.

    I’m glad that applies to only a sub-set of gays (visible as they may be), and seems to mellow with age even for them. But I’d love if we could ween young guys off that cruel streak. I’m not sure how to go about it, except by example.

  59. Frank says

    Per little kiwi… and if you were actually “masc”, you likely wouldn’t have had to tell me.

    So does that mean if you were actually a happy, empowered gay man you wouldn’t have to tell us everyday.

  60. FakeOutrage says

    So was the whole “gay and voting for Mitt Romney” real? because if so, he just erased any point about loving yourself he may have been trying to make.

  61. UFFDA says

    Look at KIWI go, getting wi-er and wi-er as he sets up house on this site. He isn’t well it’s true and I so enjoy seeing the many who recognize his nasty disfunction. He’s the one guy in the world that I would happily laugh and point at through the small heavy glass viewing window he is destined to live behind.

  62. Real Talk says

    Insecure men, closeted cases, and nut jobs (from my experiences) are the only ones who go off on rants about how masculine they are and how they only date fellow masculine men and blah blah bull hog wash and “str8 acting”

  63. Real Talk says

    Insecure men, closeted cases, and nut jobs (from my experiences) are the only ones who go off on rants about how masculine they are and how they only date fellow masculine men and blah blah bull hog wash and “str8 acting”

  64. Cleo says

    I loved the ones who mention how ‘straight acting’ they are. No, no you’re really not. Looking to put a penis in your mouth on a gay hook up site is the least ‘straight acting’ action ever. If you were truly ‘straight acting’ you wouldn’t be on male for male sites, grindr, adam 4 adam looking for penis. You’d be eating pussy. Enough with the gay men in rugged drag.

  65. USC Trojans Fan says

    I’m what you may describe as masculine, as I often have to consistently come out to people who assume I’m straight (which I dislike and find to be exhausting) but let’s be clear about one thing: inherently masculine men don’t announce it, wear it as a badge of honor, or belittle others for not being masculine. Posers who are playing an act are the ones who have to make sure you know how masculine they are. They are the same ones who queen out the moment you get them behind closed doors. I don’t trust men who go out of their way to mention their mannerism or knock down other gay men’s fem traits. Not appealing to me.

  66. Texas Joe says

    The hyper masculine gay men often suffer from intense misogyny too. So concerned with how they’ll appear in society that you wonder if they’ll ever feel liberated enough to fully be comfortable in their skin.

    Many gay men are naturally masculine. The ones who make a scene out of you knowing it aren’t. They are the ones many in the community resent. Don’t be that guy.

  67. Frankie says

    I find the guys with the long list of what they are not into right at the top of their page, to be insufferable and often generic looking duds.
    “No fats, no fems, absolutely no one of (blank race), no older guys, no guys who you can tell are gay, no one without visible muscles” Get a card board cut out of yourself and J.O.

    Narcissism is a disease y’all.

  68. Hagatha says

    My experience in perusing sex ads is that this guy in the vid may be missing the operative word. It isn’t “masculine” it is “be” by which they mean “act”.

    Wake up, Grindr isn’t for falling in love. Grindr is for hooking up and spreading social diseases. When someone says, “Looking for straight…” do you really think that he is stupid enough to think that he’s hooking up with a “straight guy”? Well, maybe he is. I have a friend who seems to believe it, and I just let it go in one ear and out the other. But I digress, he’s looking for someone to play a role game.

    Do you really think that guy that has the same pic up on craigslist now for five years is still “looking for my first time”? Come on, really? Do you?

    So perhaps “be masculine” means precisely that: play a role for me. Talk in that dumbed down voice I call AOLspeak. Show up in some stupid outfit you wouldn’t have worn when you were actually young enough to own a skateboard. Be what I want you to be, for as long as you are here, and when you leave you can get back into your adorable pink Minicooper and go for a latte with the other hair dressers you work with.

  69. Mark says

    Everything is fair in love and war.

    That said, what could happen if there is more than just one person with whom you get that “we belong together” feeling?

    In which case, why does my desire history have to conform to anyone else’s sexual politics?

    Other than that, in the real world when it comes to sex and love isn’t there always something to get over?

    Best to all.

  70. Hagatha says

    ps – I think a man with no penis should put that in the ad. And while we’re on the subject of what goes in the ad:

    If you don’t put your age, I will assume you are over 50.

    You might as well show your face, I’m going to cross index your phone number and find out who you are and where you live anyway.

    It’s really tacky to have someone else in your photo, especially your sister or her kid.

    Why are you showing me a picture of a car, sunset, pier, cartoon, or someone who is not you but what you are looking for?

  71. Mark says

    Yo Hagatha,

    Hookups are not “for” spreading social diseases…that’s too easy.

    The scene is actually much worse than that…hookups are where you will encounter compulsives and addicts…people looking for a fix to cover their awful feelings about themselves, negativity towards other people or despair about how their life is turning out.

    For an addict, sex is used as the next fix.

    The classic gay male programming is that scenes like Grindr are sexy and glamourous…in which case it’s necessary for members of this next generation to get with a vision of something nurturing to his gay soul, or a happier vision for his own life as a gay man..today you have to create your own kind of fun and better outcomes.

    Anyone who does that, of whatever generation, is a leader greater than Harvey Milk in today’s gay men’s communities.

  72. Audi-owner says

    Though I have made it quite clear that I do not find “fems” attractive and find this guy to be nothing short of a whiny little queen,putting that aside,the fact is grindr and all other gay sex apps/sites are for the lowest of the low. Hagatha described grindr perfectly. Just because it’s accessible through an electronic device does not make it any less tacky. Period!

  73. Tom says

    Frankly, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I’ve found many of these “must have masculine” guys are pretty insecure. I’m not saying all because there are a wide range of guys out there but many of these guys are exaggerating their own masculinity because it makes them feel better about themselves.

  74. Joey says

    Those who have to scream how masculine they are have some issues upstairs. We all know said people, have met them and know they aren’t fully comfortable in their sexuality. Much like the straight homophobe who isn’t very comfortable in his sexuality and has to remind you he’s straight every few minutes. Same cheap façade.

  75. Alfonso says

    From my experience, the dudes who are all about “strictly hanging out with fellow str8 acting types” just want a boyfriend who they can introduce as their roommate in public, and where they don’t look like a gay couple to strangers. It’s sad, and they get defensive when told they are still closeted. But to each their own. I usually just feel sorry for them.

  76. T.J says

    Can’t stand the hyper masculine crowd with their bragging about how masc they are. No one gives a crap. You’re frontin and no one naturally masculine needs to be so aware of it, or put on a show. Gross.

  77. Mark says

    Femmephobia is in a weird way related to AIDS Phobia since HIV causes weight loss and historically both poz and neg gay men responded by beefing up to look healthier and avoid the dreaded automatic rejection.

    So, without an official “cure” we’re still in this oppressive left-brain (dead brain) medicalized era where buff equals male and healthy and anything less is equated with femininity and disease.

    It’s something worse than a throw back to the grey fifties in which communities of gay men were divided into butch and femme….where butches were the sought after kings and femmes the bitchy servants….yawn.

    A cure would help us put all this into the past and feel much better…yet, lol…with big pharma vacuuming billions per year out of gay wallets can anyone claim such a boon could happen in any of our lifetimes?

    In the near term I would expect to see the femme gay boys down at the gym doing as many push ups as they can muster the will to endure.

  78. Josh says

    The fact that apps such as Grindr and Growlr exist is disheartening in and of itself. There are so many negative stereotypes that decent gay people have to combat on a daily basis. You add nasty and detrimental apps such as the above mentioned and it makes us, as a community, look like sex-obsessed morons. Here is an amazing idea… get off your damned phones and try human interaction. If you insist on perpetuating stereotypes, can you at least have enough respect for your self and community and do it the old-fashioned way (i.e clubs, gym, etc.) and not for the entire world to see?

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