Don't Ask, Don't Tell | Gay Rights | Military | News | Peter Pace

Gen. Peter Pace Says Military Shouldn't Condone "Immoral" Gays

In an interview with Chicago Tribune editors and reporters, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman General Peter Pace said that homosexuality is immoral and gays should not be allowed to serve openly in the military.

Peter_paceSaid Pace: "I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way. As an individual, I would not want [acceptance of gay behavior] to be our policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that if we were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with somebody else's wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior."

Pace said he based his views on his "upbringing".

C. Dixon Osburn, the executive director of the Servicemen's Legal Defense Network (SLDN), immediately called on Pace to apologize: "General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces. Our men and women in uniform make tremendous sacrifices for our country, and deserve General Pace's praise, not his condemnation. As a Marine and a military leader, General Pace knows that prejudice should not dictate policy. It is inappropriate for the Chairman to condemn those who serve our country because of his own personal bias. He should immediately apologize for his remarks."

Pace's remarks directly contradict the views of Former General and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili, who said in January that he believes the military is ready for openly gay servicemen.

Said Shalikashvili: "I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces. Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."

Shalikashvili did not bring his personal views on what is "moral" into the equation.

AmericaBlog notes: "I'd say 'immoral' is letting our own injured and maimed soldiers sleep in their own urine when you all knew about it and didn't give a damn. Immoral is lying to the American people in order to get us into a war. Immoral is sending hundreds of thousands of US soldiers into battle without the proper armor. Immoral is risking the lives of our soldiers by still not having a plan for victory or exit."

Top general calls homosexuality 'immoral' [chicago tribune]

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  1. this is very sad and frustrating. especially so when there are currently over 30 other countries allowing homosexuals to serve openly including united kingdom, taiwan, south africa, croatia, and columbia.

    Posted by: chris | Mar 13, 2007 8:44:43 AM

  2. I'm tired of hearing people whine for an apology from people who express their opinion. Even if they do get an apology from them, they're rarely ever truly sorry. They are just sorry they expressed their opinion because it ends up being bad PR for them. Let the bigots express their opinion and let us condemn them for their remarks, but asking for an insincere apology from every one of them is useless.

    Posted by: Rick | Mar 13, 2007 8:46:19 AM

  3. Just another self-righteous bigot heard from; one who apparently grew up in a self-righteous bigoted household. Authoritarian-minded people are drawn to the military because of the concrete thinking-right or wrong environment that pervades. I'm right; you're wrong. It's settled. Let's hope the colonel doesn't have gay children.

    Posted by: Bill | Mar 13, 2007 8:55:10 AM

  4. AmericaBlog notes: "I'd say 'immoral' is letting our own injured and maimed soldiers sleep in their own urine when you all knew about it and didn't give a damn. Immoral is lying to the American people in order to get us into a war. Immoral is sending hundreds of thousands of US soldiers into battle without the proper armor. Immoral is risking the lives of our soldiers by still not having a plan for victory or exit."

    EXACTLY right

    Anyway; doesn't this fools "morality" and so called bible also preach against killing? Didn't his own jesus myth when being arrested at the garden of gesthemane say to peter "Peter, put away your sword for he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword". Show me a religionist and I will show you a hypocrite fool

    Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 13, 2007 9:08:28 AM

  5. Maybe the military shouldn't condone immoral wars. They seem intent on liberating all the repressed peoples of the Earth except their own.

    Posted by: MT | Mar 13, 2007 9:08:45 AM

  6. Rick, I agree with you to a point. An insincere apology is pretty lame, and won't really do much to help improve the lot of gay and lesbian soldiers. But on the other hand, Pace's comments weren't just an opinion. They were voiced in support of an unfair military policy. So in that sense, bringing the general to task for his bigotry is important. If we let up, nothing will change.

    That said, it IS getting a bit tiring. Seems every other day there's something to get pissed off about.

    Posted by: Brian | Mar 13, 2007 9:09:33 AM

  7. From the point of view of a country ,Canada,that not only allows our millitary to serve openly we'll even allow our millitary chaplin to preside over their marriage.
    This guys an ignorant tool.
    This is what happens when the line of distinction between religion and government becomes blurred with the argument of personal belief.
    When you enter into the civil service,and thats what the millitary is,you personal beliefs are to take secound place to the law of the land.
    Unfortunitly you have that stupid "don't ask,don't tell" law on the books.
    Time will change did here...thats when the dinosaurs enter the tar pits.

    Posted by: griffin1573 | Mar 13, 2007 9:10:32 AM

  8. I wish Pace would also condemn pre-marital sex and support the dismissal of any serviceman/servicewoman who has discussed having pre-marital sex if he is so outraged by such religious immorality, but suspect he is a hypocrit and in fact doesn't hold such contempt for that "sin".

    Posted by: Patrick | Mar 13, 2007 9:19:50 AM

  9. "The priests of every age are the enemies of liberty" Thomas jefferson

    "I have explored every superstition and can find nothing of particular value in our own superstition of christianity" Thomas Jefferson

    "Lighthosues are more helpful than churches" Benjamin franklin

    "All manner of foolishness has come about under the ABSURD doctrine of the divinity of jesus" John Quincy Adams

    "A just government founded on liberty has no need for the cleregy" Madison

    "The bible is not my book nor christianity my religion, its dogmas are too convoluted" Abraham lincoln

    I think general "cult member" Pace is way down on the list of great americans that shape our lives.

    G in the pledge not till the 1950's as a sop to anti communism propaganda

    G on our money, not till the 1890's....before that the money of the founding fathers of america said "Science and Industry"

    Enough with these foolish religionists dictating to us what is right and wrong

    Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 13, 2007 9:25:26 AM

  10. Gen. Pace took an oath to defend the Constitution, which insists upon separation of church and state. He is a hypocrite on so many levels.

    Posted by: Joseph | Mar 13, 2007 9:27:04 AM

  11. So, what if all of the gays and lesbians serving in the military start "Telling" now as a united protest? If they did all did it at the same time...what would happen?

    Posted by: Jake | Mar 13, 2007 9:30:44 AM

  12. That Peter Pace is kinda hot. I love a man in uniform!

    Posted by: PC | Mar 13, 2007 9:31:00 AM

  13. The concept of immorality changes with time. Once upon a time heterosexuals fornicating was considered immoral. These days if any reverend says that loud his church would loose members and he will loose his job. Fornicators represent 90% of America and nearly 80% of the churchgoers. If and when Gays become 40% of America, no one would consider it immoral.

    Posted by: G. Chell | Mar 13, 2007 9:38:05 AM

  14. Sorry, I missed one point..I should say that fornicating with a person of the same race is no longer considered immoral by many churches. Some churches do consider marrying or dating a person of a different race is immoral let alone fornicating with a person of a different race.

    Posted by: G. Chell | Mar 13, 2007 9:40:36 AM

  15. Behind every homophobe lurks a cocksucker. And I'll bet Pace gives a *mean* blowjob. Let's hope some hooker with a massage table outs him soon.

    Posted by: peterparker | Mar 13, 2007 9:40:45 AM

  16. Interesting tid bit

    The "bible belt" has a higher rate of out of wedlock births, abortions, divorces, etc than secular liberal blue areas of america

    Side note, the red states recieve more in welfare benefits than liberal blue northern states....

    In other words the facts show that if you want immorality and poverty....believe the bible

    Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 13, 2007 9:42:42 AM

  17. GW Bush has been stretching the military so thin lately that they've had to lower their standards -- scrape the bottom of the recruiting barrel, so to speak -- and they're now allowing some felons to join. They call this a "moral waiver".

    When the Abu Grhaib scandal broke, what did the "moral" military do? They made a new rule against soldiers using digital cameras.

    Fallujah and white phosphorus.

    Women soldiers dying of dehydration in the Iraqi desert because they're weren't drinking any water in the evening so that they wouldn't need to go to the bathroom at night. Why? They didn't want to walk to the latrine because they were scared, literally scared to death, of getting raped by their fellow American soldiers.

    Stop-loss policies destroying marriages and families.

    Sending PTSD-suffering soldiers back into battle with sub-standard body armor and a bottle of Zoloft.

    Military medics covering up evidence of deadly torture techniques.

    The Pentagon spying on your email and bank accounts. Yeah, yours.

    I'd like to hear General Pace's opinion on these things.

    Posted by: John T | Mar 13, 2007 9:45:20 AM

  18. "Hot"?
    He is as ugly as his views.

    I can't help but notice how different the tone of the comments are in addressing this homophobe vs. Terrence Howard's much less damning and hateful comments just 2 or 3 posts ago.

    As long as you idiots continue to let your bigoted stupidity dictate the severity of your "outrage", the people in POWER who are working so diligently drafting LEGISLATION and passing LAWS to reverse the gains made by the gay community will continue to be successful.

    Posted by: forreal | Mar 13, 2007 9:50:50 AM

  19. By Pace's standards, John McCain, Guiliani and Gingrich, two of which recently admitted they each had an affair and the other's affair is well known, can't be president of the USA as the president is the Commander in Chief of the military and the military considers adultery and immoral act and can get one dishonorably discharged.

    Posted by: Patrick | Mar 13, 2007 9:52:02 AM

  20. Another interestiong tid bit

    per the pentagon....the air force reports a 12% rape incident while the general civillian population rape incidents is only at 4%


    Don't look over here people, don't look at the guy under the mask, don't look at the guy behind the curtain...rather look over there and stone those horrid gays

    Just more flim flam from the so called "moral" leaders of our country

    Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 13, 2007 9:53:01 AM

  21. Forreal

    Please list the names of the posters who have a different tone when discussing this guy as vs the the other.

    I myself consider both to be ignoramouses, fools, idiots, flam flam men, brainwashed cult members and both are lower than slime.

    So please, list said posters if you are going to make such an acusation

    Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 13, 2007 9:55:12 AM

  22. try revisiting
    the following threads:

    Tim Hardaway
    Isaiah Washington
    Terrence Howard.......

    that is if you can manage to dig your head out of all that sand

    Posted by: forreal | Mar 13, 2007 10:05:46 AM

  23. Oh for God's sake, can we please not turn this into another race-baiting free-for-all? There's plenty of racism in the gay community, but this isn't the discussion thread for it.

    Posted by: Brian | Mar 13, 2007 10:27:01 AM

  24. I wonder what Cheney feels about these comments.

    Posted by: Dave | Mar 13, 2007 10:27:51 AM

  25. Gen. Pace has just illustrated why DA/DT needs to go. It's based on personal opinion; narrow-minded ignorance learned in childhood and never questioned as an adult. It is not based on sound public policy considerations. It never has been.

    In 20 years, that interview will be used to illustrate the baffling bigotry of the early 21st century.

    Posted by: sam | Mar 13, 2007 10:29:08 AM

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