Gen. Peter Pace Says Military Shouldn’t Condone “Immoral” Gays

In an interview with Chicago Tribune editors and reporters, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman General Peter Pace said that homosexuality is immoral and gays should not be allowed to serve openly in the military.

Peter_paceSaid Pace: “I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way. As an individual, I would not want [acceptance of gay behavior] to be our policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that if we were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with somebody else’s wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior.”

Pace said he based his views on his “upbringing”.

C. Dixon Osburn, the executive director of the Servicemen’s Legal Defense Network (SLDN), immediately called on Pace to apologize: “General Pace’s comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces. Our men and women in uniform make tremendous sacrifices for our country, and deserve General Pace’s praise, not his condemnation. As a Marine and a military leader, General Pace knows that prejudice should not dictate policy. It is inappropriate for the Chairman to condemn those who serve our country because of his own personal bias. He should immediately apologize for his remarks.”

Pace’s remarks directly contradict the views of Former General and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili, who said in January that he believes the military is ready for openly gay servicemen.

Said Shalikashvili: “I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces. Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job.”

Shalikashvili did not bring his personal views on what is “moral” into the equation.

AmericaBlog notes: “I’d say ‘immoral’ is letting our own injured and maimed soldiers sleep in their own urine when you all knew about it and didn’t give a damn. Immoral is lying to the American people in order to get us into a war. Immoral is sending hundreds of thousands of US soldiers into battle without the proper armor. Immoral is risking the lives of our soldiers by still not having a plan for victory or exit.”

Top general calls homosexuality ‘immoral’ [chicago tribune]

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Comments

  1. says

    this is very sad and frustrating. especially so when there are currently over 30 other countries allowing homosexuals to serve openly including united kingdom, taiwan, south africa, croatia, and columbia.

  2. Rick says

    I’m tired of hearing people whine for an apology from people who express their opinion. Even if they do get an apology from them, they’re rarely ever truly sorry. They are just sorry they expressed their opinion because it ends up being bad PR for them. Let the bigots express their opinion and let us condemn them for their remarks, but asking for an insincere apology from every one of them is useless.

  3. Bill says

    Just another self-righteous bigot heard from; one who apparently grew up in a self-righteous bigoted household. Authoritarian-minded people are drawn to the military because of the concrete thinking-right or wrong environment that pervades. I’m right; you’re wrong. It’s settled. Let’s hope the colonel doesn’t have gay children.

  4. Jimmyboyo says

    AmericaBlog notes: “I’d say ‘immoral’ is letting our own injured and maimed soldiers sleep in their own urine when you all knew about it and didn’t give a damn. Immoral is lying to the American people in order to get us into a war. Immoral is sending hundreds of thousands of US soldiers into battle without the proper armor. Immoral is risking the lives of our soldiers by still not having a plan for victory or exit.”

    EXACTLY right

    Anyway; doesn’t this fools “morality” and so called bible also preach against killing? Didn’t his own jesus myth when being arrested at the garden of gesthemane say to peter “Peter, put away your sword for he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword”. Show me a religionist and I will show you a hypocrite fool

  5. Brian says

    Rick, I agree with you to a point. An insincere apology is pretty lame, and won’t really do much to help improve the lot of gay and lesbian soldiers. But on the other hand, Pace’s comments weren’t just an opinion. They were voiced in support of an unfair military policy. So in that sense, bringing the general to task for his bigotry is important. If we let up, nothing will change.

    That said, it IS getting a bit tiring. Seems every other day there’s something to get pissed off about.

  6. griffin1573 says

    From the point of view of a country ,Canada,that not only allows our millitary to serve openly we’ll even allow our millitary chaplin to preside over their marriage.
    This guys an ignorant tool.
    This is what happens when the line of distinction between religion and government becomes blurred with the argument of personal belief.
    When you enter into the civil service,and thats what the millitary is,you personal beliefs are to take secound place to the law of the land.
    Unfortunitly you have that stupid “don’t ask,don’t tell” law on the books.
    Time will change that…it did here…thats when the dinosaurs enter the tar pits.

  7. says

    I wish Pace would also condemn pre-marital sex and support the dismissal of any serviceman/servicewoman who has discussed having pre-marital sex if he is so outraged by such religious immorality, but suspect he is a hypocrit and in fact doesn’t hold such contempt for that “sin”.

  8. Jimmyboyo says

    “The priests of every age are the enemies of liberty” Thomas jefferson

    “I have explored every superstition and can find nothing of particular value in our own superstition of christianity” Thomas Jefferson

    “Lighthosues are more helpful than churches” Benjamin franklin

    “All manner of foolishness has come about under the ABSURD doctrine of the divinity of jesus” John Quincy Adams

    “A just government founded on liberty has no need for the cleregy” Madison

    “The bible is not my book nor christianity my religion, its dogmas are too convoluted” Abraham lincoln

    I think general “cult member” Pace is way down on the list of great americans that shape our lives.

    G in the pledge not till the 1950’s as a sop to anti communism propaganda

    G on our money, not till the 1890’s….before that the money of the founding fathers of america said “Science and Industry”

    Enough with these foolish religionists dictating to us what is right and wrong

  9. Jake says

    So, what if all of the gays and lesbians serving in the military start “Telling” now as a united protest? If they did all did it at the same time…what would happen?

  10. G. Chell says

    The concept of immorality changes with time. Once upon a time heterosexuals fornicating was considered immoral. These days if any reverend says that loud his church would loose members and he will loose his job. Fornicators represent 90% of America and nearly 80% of the churchgoers. If and when Gays become 40% of America, no one would consider it immoral.

  11. G. Chell says

    Sorry, I missed one point..I should say that fornicating with a person of the same race is no longer considered immoral by many churches. Some churches do consider marrying or dating a person of a different race is immoral let alone fornicating with a person of a different race.

  12. peterparker says

    Behind every homophobe lurks a cocksucker. And I’ll bet Pace gives a *mean* blowjob. Let’s hope some hooker with a massage table outs him soon.

  13. Jimmyboyo says

    Interesting tid bit

    The “bible belt” has a higher rate of out of wedlock births, abortions, divorces, etc than secular liberal blue areas of america

    Side note, the red states recieve more in welfare benefits than liberal blue northern states….

    In other words the facts show that if you want immorality and poverty….believe the bible

  14. John T says

    GW Bush has been stretching the military so thin lately that they’ve had to lower their standards — scrape the bottom of the recruiting barrel, so to speak — and they’re now allowing some felons to join. They call this a “moral waiver”.

    When the Abu Grhaib scandal broke, what did the “moral” military do? They made a new rule against soldiers using digital cameras.

    Fallujah and white phosphorus.

    Women soldiers dying of dehydration in the Iraqi desert because they’re weren’t drinking any water in the evening so that they wouldn’t need to go to the bathroom at night. Why? They didn’t want to walk to the latrine because they were scared, literally scared to death, of getting raped by their fellow American soldiers.

    Stop-loss policies destroying marriages and families.

    Sending PTSD-suffering soldiers back into battle with sub-standard body armor and a bottle of Zoloft.

    Military medics covering up evidence of deadly torture techniques.

    The Pentagon spying on your email and bank accounts. Yeah, yours.

    I’d like to hear General Pace’s opinion on these things.

  15. forreal says

    “Hot”?
    He is as ugly as his views.

    I can’t help but notice how different the tone of the comments are in addressing this homophobe vs. Terrence Howard’s much less damning and hateful comments just 2 or 3 posts ago.

    As long as you idiots continue to let your bigoted stupidity dictate the severity of your “outrage”, the people in POWER who are working so diligently drafting LEGISLATION and passing LAWS to reverse the gains made by the gay community will continue to be successful.

  16. says

    By Pace’s standards, John McCain, Guiliani and Gingrich, two of which recently admitted they each had an affair and the other’s affair is well known, can’t be president of the USA as the president is the Commander in Chief of the military and the military considers adultery and immoral act and can get one dishonorably discharged.

  17. Jimmyboyo says

    Another interestiong tid bit

    per the pentagon….the air force reports a 12% rape incident while the general civillian population rape incidents is only at 4%

    Interesting

    Don’t look over here people, don’t look at the guy under the mask, don’t look at the guy behind the curtain…rather look over there and stone those horrid gays

    Just more flim flam from the so called “moral” leaders of our country

  18. Jimmyboyo says

    Forreal

    Please list the names of the posters who have a different tone when discussing this guy as vs the the other.

    I myself consider both to be ignoramouses, fools, idiots, flam flam men, brainwashed cult members and both are lower than slime.

    So please, list said posters if you are going to make such an acusation

  19. forreal says

    try revisiting
    the following threads:

    Tim Hardaway
    Isaiah Washington
    Terrence Howard…….

    that is if you can manage to dig your head out of all that sand

  20. Brian says

    Oh for God’s sake, can we please not turn this into another race-baiting free-for-all? There’s plenty of racism in the gay community, but this isn’t the discussion thread for it.

  21. sam says

    Gen. Pace has just illustrated why DA/DT needs to go. It’s based on personal opinion; narrow-minded ignorance learned in childhood and never questioned as an adult. It is not based on sound public policy considerations. It never has been.

    In 20 years, that interview will be used to illustrate the baffling bigotry of the early 21st century.

  22. John D says

    Hitler was very happy to let Rhoem bash in the Communists, the dissidents, and the avant garde artists who saw things different. Roehm was very, very out masculine, Sadomashistic type of guy.
    He was also loyal and loved the Party.
    Many German homosexuals did. Read history folks. Why are you so different. Oh I forgot-you have your rights ,,,,excuse me.

    And when the time came to ice him, Hitler did flinch but only slightly, as he didn’t personally mind that the men he knew in the early years were homosexuals. Himmler, understanding how the German people would complain, see through told him “you must kill them all”(the SA-Himmler was SS), so Hitler with what he said were regrets decreed the death of hundreds of the SA, (the night of long knives), and said he had to for the sake of the state…Then purity laws were enacted. It’s all in the history books. Purity of Morality for the State.
    The moral security of the Homeland. This may be dramatic, and you can say it’s never true in the great USA…and I am first generation immigrant yet I never realized I would live in a country that creates Gitmo.
    Have yo been there? They have lovely food, so the Senator’s say…Dick Cheney says it’s sunny and quite posh….

    Serious,any of a top players in the republican/right/evangelical regime must either join fully, mouth the party line. Or get out…Example Dick Cheney, his daughter, and countless republican pioneers, they must be quiet and speak against the gay conspiracy or face the harsh cold pavement.
    This is the brillaince of the new repubilican control, and it works.
    Do you not know that certain repubicans/democrats and media executives have been shown rather comprimising data/pics/e-mails to coerce votes on Invasions, and curtailing “civil liberties”?
    Did you know that a couple of State department analysts died as sucides before Iraq was invaded?
    I am amazed that Americans want to watch Sopranos, when a much more effiecient mob is dismantling the country.
    For the whole lot of America, you are part of “decayed liberalism” and the religous moral talk is excellant cover snow job people to accept War, Two-Tiered system, reducing icrementally rights/ land,property ect. also. The brave soldiers are also fighting to get to college, and buy a truck,and not die of poverty. And for the homosexual/lesbian/transgender in the United States now, there is the underlying suspicion that he or she is not safe, he is different, not a part of by many. It’s implied, but it’s there.
    This doesn’t necessarily mean some concentration camp senario, but the words denote that homosexaul is sub-human by Mr. Pace, George Bush, Donald Trump,Ralph Reed, and many, many other’s. Including the Jeff Gannon, Matt Sanchez reformed homosexual confessions making cable talk show “news”. It says see they are against the State. Many of the architects of the Nazi Reich were in fact gay/jewish or both. This is so hard to fathom?
    To a degree as of the present the army/the congress/the senate resemble the way Soviet society operated in early Stalin era.
    The military is mirroring not what is going to change , but what is approaching. A lone general speaking out will not cahnge the agenda of very cynical brokers. I can assure you that the top dogs are not only working overtime, but counting on the exact diversity, and confusion of all their opponents to help further the dream of a rebuilt prto empirethat they envision.
    The technology being employed by NSA is astounding, and they now track the most inane things, but it is most excellent in that future wise everybody can be the suspect. So nobody really has rights though they tell you do. You are afraid but you don’t know how or why. Sound familiar?

    As an example: I am a professor who voices view regrading Muslims, and War, ect. I am also single, or married but the intelligence agency which now has domestic oversight send me links to compromising sites. I open those links. Dead!
    Could be Kid porn, could be “terror sites”, or whatever. I am tried by the cable shows.
    Think how many are going to defend me. How many brave men?

  23. John says

    I agree with the SLDN statement. Moreover, I believe Gen. Pace should be relieved of his command. President Bush, however, is the “decider” on that one.

    Our elected representatives should repeal “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and permit openly gay men and women to serve in the military. Nothing less.

    In this great country of ours, Gen. Pace has to follow orders.

    If Gen. Pace and his fellow homophobes cannot deal with change, let them retire into oblivion, just as the diehard segregationists once did.

    P.S. Some of the best marines I know, the ones of whom Gen. Pace would be most proud, prefer same sex partners. Nature will out.

  24. atheist says

    All the gay men and women should just pack up and get the hell out of the military. Why should they give of their best and serve their country when their country and leaders are hostile to their very existence? The military does not deserve them. Let them find 65,000 straights that want to do the dirty work instead. Let them find a few more straights that want to get shot in Iraq. If someone wants to serve their country, the military should just shut the f*** up and be thankful and grateful that they do, never mind their sexual preference. Show some bloody “General”. You are not worthy.

  25. Raman says

    So let me get this straight…Homosexuality is immoral, but the murder and fascism inherent in any military operation is not immoral? And it is OK to teach men and women to kill and brutalize one another, but loving one another is godless. No wonder we and our military are losing this insane war. We are fighting against Islamic fundamentalists who believe the same things as our religious conservatives. Seems Christianity and Islam have a great deal in common…much to the chagrin of demagogues on either side.

  26. G. Chell says

    “In other words the facts show that if you want immorality and poverty….believe the bible”

    The facts show that if you want immorality and poverty look at the southerners, particulalry the Bible thumping racist white southerners..

  27. G. Chell says

    “GW Bush has been stretching the military so thin lately that they’ve had to lower their standards — scrape the bottom of the recruiting barrel, so to speak — and they’re now allowing some felons to join. They call this a “moral waiver”.”

    Comment: Round up all the College Republicans give them ammunition and send them to the front.

  28. Kelly says

    So, does Gen. Pace approve of gay group sex generally, or just three ways? Since he denounces “homosexual acts between two individuals” as immoral, I guess he’s open to homosexual acts between three or more people. When those Marines talk about needing a few good men, they sure are consistent.

  29. Dan Cobb says

    Peter Pace (the modern day Adolf Hitler) instituted a Holocaust in Iraq that has resulted in the deaths of 600,000 innocent Iraqi civilians, including tens of thousands of children; destroyed the infrastructure for clean water and air; melted old and infirm people to death in Fallujah with White Phosphorous; lied repeatedly about the “progress” being made in Iraq; and all for the purpose of enabling the larceny of Iraqis oil for the benefit of W’s cronies at Halliburton, ExxonMobil and Chevron.

    He is a monster. He is a modern day Hitler… and he has the audacity to talk about immorality while pointing his finger at someone other than himself…

    Would someone please put this man out of his misery!

  30. forreal says

    Dan Cobb:

    such is the Devils way. He throws around condemnation and points out the “sins” of others so that perhaps his own intense evil is overlooked or missed.

  31. bambambam says

    so Andy…we need a dedicated pool thread to take bets on

    (a) How long before this guy gets busted outside a highway rest stop

    (b) What state

    (c) for the trifecta, which Christian re-closeting rehab he will enter

    Andy, this pool will make your site more popular than blingo!

  32. Leland says

    Forreal: Stop playing the Race Card—it’s a losing hand.

    C. Dixon Osburn: SLDN does a lot of great work, in terms of counseling people caught in DADT’s web, but you’ve been predicting the surrender of the Pentagon and the just-around-the-corner overturn of DADT as frequently as Pat Robertson has been predicting the coming of the Lord. And, worse, this is yet another impotent example of Revolution by Press Release that you and HRC and NGLTF and GLAAD so STUPIDLY and LAZILY and COWARDLY imagine actually accomplishes anything—it hasn’t; it doesn’t; it won’t. Instead of wasting more paper and holding press conferences, get all of those medal winning out gay vets with signs in front of the Pentagon, in front of Pace’s home, his church; in front of the White House—on the national news where Americans can SEE what we’re talking about. “Apologize”? How old are you, Dixon? 12?

    This also is an object lesson for those who want to place the sole blame for DADT on Clinton. THIS is the type of powerful Neanderthal in uniform he was up against; except then it was Colon [sic] [sick] Powell [yes, Forreal, a Black bigot] who was in Pace’s position as head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He’s not just another homophobic nut—he’s the most powerful man in uniform in the US.

    In short: am I the only one tired of simply TALKING about these public demonizations of us?

  33. Leland says

    PS: In what seems to be a pattern for Internet polls, the Troglodytes with a PC are ruling the day at AOL’s poll about Pace’s comments. At this moment, 65% of 264,000+ voters agree with him.

  34. Ben says

    I agree with Chris. And the reality is that there will always be people who don’t agree with the gay lifestyle, just as there will always be people who don’t like Jews for some reason or another. If we don’t allow them to express their personal opinions (however discriminatory), then how can we expect to express our own opinions (however liberal)? It’s when discrimination leaks into the political and social channels that something has to be done. A personal opinion requires no apology, in my opinion. I mean, I wouldn’t invite this guy over to dinner, but I’m not going to ask him to apologize. It’s not worth it. If anything, it makes the gay and lesbian community look a little petty. In my opinion. Let’s tackle an issue (the right to gay marriage, adoption, &tc) that affects how we live, not concern ourselves with how one man perceives us.

  35. forreal says

    Leland

    guilty much? unlike my first post, the last post had nothing to do with race.

    does devil/evil = white? i guess to you it must.

    i anticipate another 12 paragraph response at some point. save it. although you seem to find the time (do you have a job)to comment on nearly EVERY posting i’m not nearly as impressed with the content as many here seem to be.

    ever heard the saying : “those with the most to say usually have nothing to say at all”?

    don’t put your words in my mouth

  36. FedUp says

    No matter how many gay rights marches, no matter how many warm pro-gay references in TV sitcoms, no matter how much gay groups complain, no matter how many homosexual channels appear on cable, homosexuality IS immoral. It’s also revolting.

    Homosexuals weren’t born that way any more than child molesters or bank robbers were born that way.

    About 3% of the population is homosexual at the most, yet we have to endure constant bombardment with the homosexual agenda by TV, newspapers, school lessons, people who are afraid of being labled a homophope. . . I for one of many are sick of it. From all the crap you hear, you’d think 50% are gay.

    Quit trying to make everyone except your perversion by shoving it down their throats as normal behavior.

    Sure, you have a right to be gay, and I have a right to find it sickening. Get used to it.

    General Pace spoke his mind. Good for him.

  37. K.L.Lee says

    No matter how much we may emphasize the proble with gays, no matter how many complain about gays in the military, no matter how many want to ban gay marriages, homosexuality IS LEAST OF THE PROBLEM. Heterosexual fornication is a bigger problem with 90% of Americans sleeping with someone before marriage and another 50% having extra marital affairs. The Bible says that heterosexual fornication and adultery is as bad as homosexuality. The woman who Jesus rescued from the stoners was accused of heterosexual fornication (adultery) not homosexuality.

    Heterosexual fornicators (90% of Americans) weren’t born to fornicate any more than child rapists or murderers or gays were born that way.

    About 90% of the American population is made up of heterosexual fornicators, and only 3% of the population is gays.

    Sure, you have a right to be a heterosexual forincator and I have a right to find it sickening. Get used to it as well.

    You have spoken your mind. I have spoken mine and to all the do gooder preachers in America including Billy Graham who want to come and preach to me here in Asia, about homosexuality and heterosexual fornication, I say go back and preach to your fellow countrymen, 90% of whom are surely going to hell along with 3% of the gays.

  38. j.rosa says

    I agree with Chiris, who wrote “I’m tired of hearing people whine for an apology from people who express their opinion. Even if they do get an apology from them, they’re rarely ever truly sorry”.

    since homosexuality is immoral like sleeping with another womans wife, i’d like to see everyone in the millitary discharged for this immoral act.

    HUM who would be left to fight.

  39. mark m says

    K.L.Lee,

    Your post rocks! But I must point out that Billy Graham has never preached against homosexuality. Not saying he thinks it’s peachy but as an evangelist, he’s not one of the evil ones.

  40. K.Lee says

    Mark M

    Thank you. Just an example,,did not say Graham preached against homosexuality, but he should be preaching to the heterosexual fornicators back in the United States.

  41. Ted says

    I totally agree with Gen. Pace’s assesments. Homosexuality is indeed an immoral act, one that has been condemned since the first creation of man. People who support that lifestyle do so at the risk of offended not Gen. Pace, but the one who really matters, which is God himself. Many who want to live that lifestyle do not profess a belief in God which in turn allows them freedom to live any lifestyle that they choose, essentially freeing their conscience of accountablity.

  42. Jack! says

    Take your CHOSEN beliefs elsewhere Ted. Your assertions do not hold up to reality. That book you cite is a work of fiction. You might as well recite from Cinderella.

  43. Ted says

    Thank You Jack for backing up my comment. Like I said many who support the gay lifestyle profess no belief in God nor the Bible. Like any lifestyle my belief is my choice ….so is the gay lifestyle, a choice.

  44. Nick says

    I agree. The military should not condone immoral conduct. That includes any straight soldier who makes any type of sexist comment about someone of the opposite sex. That also means the generals who allowed lesser ranked soldiers take the hit for abu graid. And let’s not forget the lying of the decider in chief. Gays are immoral? No, only general like PPace who obey lies from someone who is killing Americans

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