This Man is 22 Weeks Pregnant

Thomasbeatie

Thomas Beatie is transgender, legally male, and has a wife, Nancy. He’s also 22 weeks pregnant. The couple’s first attempt at pregnancy was fraught with life threatening medical isses. However, their second attempt has resulted in, by all accounts, a healthy pregnancy. Eight years after having his last menstrual cycle he stopped taking bimonthly testosterone injections and his body regulated itself so that he was able to conceive.

Beatie writes, in The Advocate: “Our situation sparks legal, political, and social unknowns. We have only begun experiencing opposition from people who are upset by our situation. Doctors have discriminated against us, turning us away due to their religious beliefs. Health care professionals have refused to call me by a male pronoun or recognize Nancy as my wife. Receptionists have laughed at us. Friends and family have been unsupportive; most of Nancy’s family doesn’t even know I’m transgender.”

Beatie is due on July 3.

Labor of Love [the advocate]

Comments

  1. Mike says

    I saw this story the other day and I couldn’t help but just shrug my shoulders at it. Sorry, they made their bed, no lie in it. You wanted to be a man, men don’t get preggers. Attention seekers.

  2. jjd says

    ignorant comment. if you had bothered to read the article you’d see that the “wife” of the marriage was unable to conceive due to a hysterectomy. While odd, I don’t see why they should be discriminated against and wish them the best.

  3. Matt says

    I read the article. I am for his right to be male. I don’t think that Mr. Beatie should carry the child for several reasons. The first reason is taking all that testosterone all these years may have had adverse effects on his ability to carry this child to term. The second reason is that they are getting poor medical treatment from professionals. I know they shouldn’t but this might endanger both the health of the child and the parent. A final reason why I disagree is that the child might develop some kind of mental issue as he/she grows up. I know from growing up gay that kids can be hard on us. I can’t imagine what this child will have to deal with. I think a surrogate mother would have been the better choice in this situation.

  4. dh says

    I’m all for “live and let live” but I can’t help but think that, despite the cessation of the testosterone shots, the baby’s health may still be affected by the years of male hormones the mother/father took. God Bless them all.

  5. dh says

    I’m all for “live and let live” but I can’t help but think that, despite the cessation of the testosterone shots, the baby’s health may still be affected by the years of male hormones the mother/father took. God Bless them all.

  6. David says

    Well, they shouldn’t be discriminated against, but come on. What do they expect? A guy is pregnant!

    Good luck to them. I’m sure they’ll find a nice doctor who will take care of them.

  7. lis says

    I have seen a few situations where the female in the partnership couldn’t get pregnant… and heard comments from the male that “if he could carry the baby, he would”.

    It doesn’t seem that outlandish to me.

    It does seem really surprising to me that he still has all the proper parts required to make a baby, though. I would have guessed he would have also had a hysterectomy, in the process of changing.

  8. Rad says

    To each their own.

    I gotta admit, I am a bit envious at first. I recall some medical study a decade or so ago where they discovered males CAN carry a fertilized embryo (for a few weeks). The peritoneal tissue of the male is identical to the female in and around the abdominal cavity. When I had first read this article, I had thought they had advanced the science.

    But a uterus is a uterus is a uterus. You can opt to change your sex, but unless there is a complete removal and sex reassignment, under the covers, a woman is still a woman.

    I wish them well.

  9. chims says

    These people are exploiting their situation for the money (I know this first hand), They have made the decision to fan their story out there (they will be on Oprah, Timothy is writing a book) to make cold hard cash. Medically, humanely and morally they are not being responsible. The child’s health is at risk. They are not receiving proper health care. It’s interesting from a gender standpoint (it will certainly raise some great discussion) and everyone has a right to live the way they want to but only without incurring physical or mental harm to others — and why exploit it? For the betterment of (wo)man, or for personal $$$ gain?

  10. chims says

    These people are exploiting their situation for the money (I know this first hand), They have made the decision to fan their story out there (they will be on Oprah, Timothy is writing a book) to make cold hard cash. Medically, humanely and morally they are not being responsible. The child’s health is at risk. They are not receiving proper health care. It’s interesting from a gender standpoint (it will certainly raise some great discussion) and everyone has a right to live the way they want to but only without incurring physical or mental harm to others — and why exploit it? For the betterment of (wo)man, or for personal $$$ gain?

  11. Derrick from Philly says

    “men don’t get pregnant…”

    I read (a while ago) that some British scientist were saying it was quite possible for men (biological men)to carry a pregnancy to term by attaching a fertilized egg to the small intestine. Then, of course, the baby would be delivered by a caesarean. How many “normal” folks who’ve had babies the normal way have been f—ked up parents? Give these “unusual” parents a chance. As far as the physical health of the baby: don’t some biological males & females have different levels of male/female hormones naturally–in both male & female bodies? Y’all sound like straight people.

    This blog and others have taught me that there are many types of gay people with many different beliefs, standards of behavior, social prejudices, etc. DUH? Yeah, I was naive. I was naive enough to believe that being “gay” necessitated a certain type of liberalism–live and let live, and let humans express themselves as they want to as long as they don’t hurt others. I’ve come to realize over the last decade that homosexuals who call themselves “gay” often share nothing in common except our sexual attraction. I guess that’s one of the reasons why these Gay Pride Parades and festivities seem to get smaller and smaller in attendance every year.

    The conformist homosexuals now dominate the “gay world” (atleast the American Gay world). I kinda’ wish they’d stayed in the closet– which is where they were 30 years ago. For these homosexuals, acceptance by the socially conservative straight world is progress. For a defiant minority of us it means the death of “gay”.

  12. Alex says

    It’s amazing how discriminative, narrow-minded and bigoted could be people, who complain of discrimination, narrow-mindness and bigotry on daily basis. You give the same shit worth comments that the straight bigots have been giving to the LGBTQ community for years now, and still manage to be at piece with yourself.

    Well, next time when you want to be recognized as what you are, don’t wonder why someone thinks less of you just because you don’t fill THEIR stupid frames. And yes, that goes to “well, to each their own, live and let live, but if you’re gay you’re still not a REAL man”. Well, DUH.

    Remember “quote one, quote them all”? Well, if you’re to use this argument, freaking observe it yourself too!

  13. noah says

    More power to them. As long as the father-mother receive good medical care that ensures the health of the baby, what’s the problem? This is an act of love. Think about all of the heterosexual couples where the woman can’t carry a child. I’m sure there would be a lot husbands who carry a child. Infertility issues devastate marriages. The cost of a surrogacy are also large–there’s trend to outsource surrogacy to India because fees are less.

    I imagine that a lot of gay men in committed relationships would like to have a child that shares genetic material of both parents. If science allowed and helped a man to carry a child, wouldn’t some gay men do so?

    Does anyone remember the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie where he played a scientist who carries a child to term?

  14. Jimmyboyo says

    eh

    inherintly female anyway

    Before reading the article I thought “WOW, they did it. They replicated the baboon experiments.”

    Scientists were succesful in implanting a fertilized embryo onto the wall of the large intestines of a male baboon. It attached and grew. It didn’t ultimately survive but its growth was impressive.

    Anyway; good for them, but nothing ground breaking scientificly

  15. Jimmyboyo says

    PS

    I just did a quick search. Turns out the baboon experiment might not be as authentic as I thought. The scientist that suppsoedly did it never showed the pregnant baboon to other scientists and ended up later being very shady on other issues.

  16. RB says

    Derrick, while we usually do not agree, I am proud that you have learned that all gays are not the same. It is certainly different but it is their reality. If they cannot get support from the LGBT community who will support them? Come on everyone, open you minds! We all know many of us here are far more closed minded than we want to admit.

  17. RB says

    Derrick, while we usually do not agree, I am proud that you have learned that all gays are not the same. It is certainly different but it is their reality. If they cannot get support from the LGBT community who will support them? Come on everyone, open you minds! We all know many of us here are far more closed minded than we want to admit.

  18. queendru says

    Thomas Beatie was born female. It says Thomas was female to male transgender, however, Thomas hedged bets and is now pregnant.

    The Advocate link says the fertilization was done at home but it also says sex reassignment had taken place.

    Thomas may be male on paper but doesn’t appear to have fully taken on that gender identity. I’m quite shocked a hysterectomy was not performed or required for the change in legal status. Thomas seems to be a selfish mockery of the transgender community.

    I fully support those in the medical community who see this as needing ethics review or who feel uncomfortable with their ability to provide proper care for such a patient.

  19. says

    I think the problem here is how the law legally defines a person’s gender. There has to be consistency from state to state as to what is required for one gender to change to another legally. A person who feels they were born into the wrong body identifies and feels they are the opposite gender, and they probably are in their brain, but the body tells another story. But that doesn’t and probably shouldn’t legally make that person the gender they believe they are without a complete physical sexual reassignment. If this person was still left with the female organs that allows them to conceive a child, then they should never have been legally classified as a male. I’m presuming this “man” still has a vagina if he was able to be fertilized and will have a vaginal birth.

    Regardless of all that, he (and I still use the word “he” because that’s how he wants to be addressed) should not be denied medical care based on the circumstances. Though I do think they (the couple) are probably exploiting all of this for personal gain.

  20. Rikard says

    I don’t understand the trans mentality. I enjoy a silky slip as much as the next guy, but we part ways there. My support for people going to any lengths to be themselves though is unconditional. We may all reserve the right to shrug and say weird. We can just say “you go girl, er dude” and leave it at that. I don’t understand the upset families either. In my family any baby is cause for celebration and the total focus of our affection.
    A toast, TO LIFE!

  21. Joseph says

    While some of the comments are open minded and supportive, it doesn’t surprise me that the negative ones are here as well.

    It’s no surprise that their “situation sparks legal, political, and social unknowns.” Personally, I think it is very interesting and I am always up for challenging social norms and expectations. Beattie goes on to say “We have only just begun to experience discrimination …” Frankly, what did he expect; gay men and women, transgender, transsexual, two-spirited, queer, bisexual etc … still deal with stigma and discrimination from heterosexuals and among themselves … and that’s without the circumstances of an unusual pregnancy.

    It will be interesting to see if the pregnancy goes full term and what complications; social, physical or otherwise they may experience. I wish him luck, unfortunately I think it will be hard luck.

  22. RJ says

    Derrick, Alex, RB, I agree with you all. It’s disturbing how bigoted some of the comments are.

    Mike, men don’t get pregnant? Really? Some folks would say men don’t get married to other men either.

    Queendru… “selfish mockery”?, “ethics review”? From which hypocritical right-wing fundamentalist tree did you fall?

    I wish the couple all the best.

  23. says

    wow, as a straight, married-to-a-woman father, I am really surprised at how vehemently the LGB’s here [or the G’s, I’m guessing] are booting the T’s to the curb.

    FTM pregnancies are not new, just a pregnant FTM dude being out about it and posing like Demi Moore. Also not new: insensitive bigotry towards pregnant FTM’s from within the TS and gay/lesbian communities.

    In the few minutes since reading about this story, I searched online for research and support information about FTM pregnancy; there’s plenty there, dating back to the 70’s. A lot of it includes firsthand accounts of the discrimination and ostracization FTM’s experienced. I figured that was some time in ancient gay history; but it sounds like it’s alive and kicking.

  24. RB says

    Amen Greg! We are all different from the general society but that is the one thing that we have in common! WE ARE DIFFERENT, from them and each other. I am amazed at how little concern we have for anyone that does not fit our norm.

    I tried to conform, spent 11 years married, had two kids and yet never fit in! If this is the only way that they can have children then just pray that they are healthy, both the parent and child!

    I have dealt with more homophobia both from myself and others since I came out than I ever did as a “straight” man! Which in and of itself is a joke as I was NEVER straight! I blindly walked into what I thought was a liberal accepting society only to slapped in the face with crap like some of the posts here. No offense, but we are hardly open minded and lack the class it takes to be so. My grandmother always said two things, you cannot buy class and it isn’t for sale and that there is not a lot of common in common sense! I would think that both apply to this thread.

    My best to the family to be!

  25. says

    I think it’s amazing and wonderful. As the original goals for the GLBT movement were based upon sexual freedom has morphed into working towards civil unions, gay marriage and having babies, this seems to be the next logical step in the process. Yeah, some people may not think it’s so great because it’s “different” or “weird”, but nothing changes until people keep pushing the boundaries of sexuality and gender rather than playing it safe..

  26. kipp says

    I think the worry over the health of the baby is likely overblown (besides, high testerone levels in pregnancy may cause male homosexuality so that isn’t too “dangerous” anyway).
    My problem is the disconnect between the mother’s wish to be considered a man and her wish to “leave her reproductive options” open. Basically, she has her breasts removed had grew facial hair – but kept her vagina ovaries and uterus.
    In the article, there was this strangely locuted quote about the desire for a biological child not being a female but a human desire. I find it really strange that a person who was born a woman and wants to carry a child in pregnancy seems to have such a problem with being a woman.
    What is so valuable about a flat chest and facial hair? And how can you simultaneously claim that bodies we are born with do not determine our “true” gender and then go on to reinforce those same gender stereotypes by surgically altering your body to conform to that same bogus stereotype?
    I am happy we live in a country where people are free to pursue their own forms of happiness. But we also need to progress to freeing people from their own internal prejudices. Why not choose to be, simply, an unconventional, empowered woman (or a sensual, feminine man) instead of pursuing a complicated regime of surgical & hormonal alteration to achieve superficial physical traits whose significance was discounted in the first place?

  27. soulbrotha says

    I wish this couple a healthy baby!

    But I am surprised that people are still *surprised* at the hypocrisy and bigotry that has been a main staple of this blog’s threads for some time.

  28. Alex says

    KIPP, seriously????

    “I find it really strange that a person who was born a woman and wants to carry a child in pregnancy seems to have such a problem with being a woman.”
    I hate to break it for you, but women are not limited to being e reproductive system. Do you find it hard for someone born sans vagina to want to be with a men strange? I mean, come on, he’s been born with a dick, and wants to use it – why can’t he just go and have a gal of his own?

    “Why not choose to be, simply, an unconventional, empowered woman (or a sensual, feminine man) instead of pursuing a complicated regime of surgical & hormonal alteration to achieve superficial physical traits whose significance was discounted in the first place?”???
    I don’t believe you, honestly. Than why not choosing to be a quiet and closeted homosexual, instead of going through the ordeal of coming out to being with? Why having crappy substitutes of rights which significance is “still discounted in the first place”? I sure as hell hope you’re following your advices.

    It’s all called CHOICE to be who you are, especially when ignorants and bigots judge you at the same corner where they whine for being judged themselves.

  29. queendru says

    RJ says, “Queendru… “selfish mockery”?, “ethics review”? From which hypocritical right-wing fundamentalist tree did you fall?”

    Name calling from self-appointed tolerance police! ‘Love it.

    If you read the Advocate piece, you see there was an ethic review at one hospital over this case. There was also a psych review. This makes perfect sense. You have an individual who when through the trying process of becoming female to male and now wants to undertake a uniquely female activity of carrying a child to term.

    If you can’t see even a few of the ethical questions that need asking, I don’t want to live the sort of unquestioning, no holds barred universe you are championing.

    By Thomas obviously not fully embracing the physical transformation away from female, you have a mockery of the journey of transgenders to make that leap to match body with self-image. You have, instead, a true life example of the stereotyped F2M as just a mutilated woman. It’s offensive. Now there’s some suggestion this story is a hoax.

  30. Jeff says

    Odd story and kinda creepy, but, if “he” still retains female parts that are capable of carrying a child to term, “he” is still a “she.”

  31. Rey says

    Reading an article like this gives me hope for the future and the further diminishing of gender roles and prejudices.

    Reading the comments associated with an article like this makes me think gay people are doomed to self-destruction much like the bozos running the Democratic party.

  32. kipp says

    Alex,

    “I hate to break it for you, but women are not limited to being e reproductive system.”

    Women are indeed free to be whatever they want – and I am happy about that. I’m not sure how you interpreted my post as a swipe at female dignity. My question remains: How can a person born a woman, who has kept her vagina, and is now carrying a baby have such an issue with being perceived as a woman? Thomas chose to have his breasts removed and live as man – yet also chose to keep his female genitalia and to carry a pregnancy. My question does not demean women, it asks why Thomas wants to be considered as *only* a man?

    If you had attended to the parts of my comment beyond those that offended you, you may noted that I am happy women and men have the freedom in our society to pursue whatever makes them happy – and that “really” does include whatever degree of gender re-assignment they choose. I can still support that freedom while asking why people choose to exercise it. And I was alluding to another point, beyond the scope of this thread, about the ways in which transgender people like Thomas seem to simultaneously want to defy gender/body stereotypes (vagina and breasts = female soul) yet also go to great lengths to adhere to gender stereotypes (facial hair and flat chest = male soul).

    It isn’t an attack on Thomas’ (or your) freedom to raise that point.

  33. Hermes in DC says

    Assuming this story isn’t some elaborate hoax, I find it shocking that so many people have sprung to the defense of this undertaking on “live and let live” grounds.

    I’m all for that as far as it goes. But this is not just about the adult couple. There is another, prenatal human life involved here as well. And the only discussion of the health issues facing the fetus is Kipp’s “I think the worry over the health of the baby is likely overblown”. That may well be, and I’m certainly not doctor. But I’d want to see a hell of a lot stronger assurance than “likely overblown” before concluding that these people aren’t playing craps with another human being’s life in order to indulge their fantasy of parenthood and what some here are applauding as sensible gender-boundary pushing.

    To my mind, the first and absolutely unassailable principle in ethics is the Kantian admonition to treat no other person as simply a means to an end. It’s not clear to me that this fetus is anything other than a means in these circumstances.

    That said, satisfy the health concerns, and then I’m with the live and let live crowd. It’s definitely on the outermost edge of social evolution, and I’m not sure that I need gender roles to be so malleable that “men” are bearing children. But I’m not going to stand in the way.

  34. anon says

    I’m wondering about the mechanics of this situation. What female anatomy remains? How will the baby be delivered. Women without ovaries have a small chance of delivering to term, for example. (This is different from women without eggs.)

    What I guess we are dealing with is not FTM transgenderism but FT-Hermaphrodite transgenderism, which again hints at the underlying near masochism of transgenders wishing to mutilate themselves. It must be obvious that no amount of surgery or hormone treatments will change your sex. Some desires simply cannot be fulfilled at present. While we should be emotionally supportive if a person has body issues, there are practical limits to what can we can hope to achieve. If you’ve looked into transgender surgery, etc., please be aware of attempts by some to change their bodies in all sorts of ways, such as trying to become another species! Yes, plastic surgeons will do anything for a buck, but becoming a horse or a dog ain’t easy. What is comes down to is whether the fulfillment of the desire does more harm than good in the end.

  35. says

    I wish Thomas and Nancy all the best and hope for a safe delivery.

    However, I admit that I’m a tad jealous that their relationship has legal recognition yet the bulk of gay, lesbian, and other non-gender-conforming relationships don’t. I’ve heard of a few transgendered persons whose marriages have been given legal recognition, yet gay and lesbian couples by and large can’t get married. It would appear that the only way a gay man can legally marry another man is if the latter is a pre-op FTM, and the only way a lesbian can legally marry a woman is if the latter is a pre-op MTF (see the Jessica Wicks case), or something like that. Maybe I’m confusing things here.

    Notice that I haven’t said anything negative about Thomas’ pregnancy. While it was a surprise to read that article, I still hope for the best.

  36. Lia says

    Alex: It all depends on state laws. Most allow post-op marriage in the new gender (a straight marriage, of course), but it depends on how you define gender. Some states, like I think Texas, define sex based on chromosomes, so if you’re XY you’ll forever be able to marry XX people, no matter what genitals or body you have.

  37. jeez says

    Geez, I would have expected better from the LGBT community. Why does ANYONE care how someone expresses their gender?! What possible difference does it make whether they want to be called a man or a woman or a Martian? What’s the problem with just treating people respectfully, calling them what they want to be called, and leaving them the hell alone? If someone wants to be called Fred, Portia, or Lawn Mower, fine by me. Just as it certainly isn’t my place to tell them what their name is, it sure as hell isn’t my place to tell them what they should do to present their gender “correctly”. Good grief, from a bunch of people who are being oppressed and abused because of your sexual presentation, there are sure some real bigots!

    I’m straight, and even I can figure that much out. Humans are so frigging obsessed with the gender binary, it’s stupid. What a waste of energy.

  38. Keith says

    This is not the first time this has happened, as I mentioned in an earlier post. The problem here is the publicity mongering for $. Thomas Beatie has whored himself out to the media like a sideshow freak. He’s making a few bucks while the right wing bigots are having a field day with this story & gaining new converts.

  39. webejamming says

    I agree with Jeez. I think we need to question WHY any change or wierdness in someones gender presentation matters so much to us.

    If a person who was born a female, and had not ever had any sex reassignment surgery but simply wished to be refered to with male pronouns had become pregnant what would you all think of that? What about if someone simply didn’t like the male/female system we have and asked to be referred to with gender neutral pronouns?

    Why does a person’s gender matter so much to us at all? Why does a person’s sex matter so much? Why are we even asking stupid questions that basically add up to “what does he look like naked? or What kind of equipment does he have between his legs?”

    Is it simply because it always has mattered to our society, so it should just continue to be important? This internalized way of thinking that we are projecting on others is the reason that we (deep down on the inside) still think things like “girls can’t do that” or “how odd that he’d want to have his penis surgically changed to a vagina” or “why is she such a tomboy, does that mean she’s a dike?”

    if you think that i’m being a bit harsh, stop and think about it. Every judgmental thing you think about others is a judgement you put on yourself first.

    Who cares what sex or gender he is. That other people are given the creeps by it says more about them than about him.

  40. Blake says

    I note with dismay that there is but ONE SINGLE POST in this entire thread that hits the nail bang on the fuckin’ head, and not one person has responded to it logically or rationally. That of course, is the post by “Hermes in DC”. There is a correct ethical statement to be expressed about this scenario and he has identified it with precision. All the rest of you yammering on about how “bigoted” it is to even begin to question the ethics of such an action, and how we presumably shouldn’t dare to be anything but worshipful of something that ‘transgresses the false patriarchal gender dichotomy’ should have your heads checked. You have been deluded into thinking that tolerance is the end all be all rule we should judge everything by, to the exclusion of all other methods of inquiry. You are wrong. Tolerance is important as everyone here should already know, it’s crucial even, but the future is not mere tolerance alone. The future is reason.

  41. Webejamming says

    Blake, I think that you may have overlooked a few valuable arguments in your rush to throw all the “non reasonable” one’s away.

    Please tell me how this person identifying herself as a man puts the life of the unborn at risk. Is he/ has he denied the pregnancy on the grounds that he’s male and couldn’t possibly become pregnant? Is he endangering the child, his child, by refusing prenatal care? Is this child just a science experiment growing in some other part of the body (not the uterus)?

    If you are going to say the history of hormone use may be endangering the kid, perhaps we ought not go down a road where people need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they have a history which ensures that they will have safe pregnancies and healthy children.

    My understanding, from the story, was that he was off the hormones and that is what allowed him to get pregnant in the first place.

    On a somewhat different note, do you have any idea how many women using hormonal birth control pills become pregnant each year due to drug interactions from drugs prescribed by their own doctors? Many of these women continue to have a monthly cycle for several months due to despite the fact that they are indeed pregnant because they are still on the pill, which regulates their menstral cycle too. How many become pregnant due to the fact that most birth control pills are tested for effectiveness on women who weigh less than 115 pounds? In a country where a good majority of the women weigh more than that, don’t you think the pharm. companies would be doing something to make pills more effective, not coming up with “low dose” varieties? How are all those hormones effecting the children? How about vaccines that are linked to higher likelihood of autism? Vaccines ruled mandatory by many state governments.

    Maybe we should be getting mad about things that we can prove and not that some person who identifies himself as a man, who still has a uterus, is bearing a child and had in the past used male hormones.

  42. Gerri says

    It is interesting that in alot of these comments people are saying, ‘men can’t get pregnant’ or ‘once a women always a women’ or ‘they are doing ot for money’ my thinking is whose business is it but theirs. They are in a commited relationship and have made the best of a bad situation with Nacy not being able to have children. I say good on him and if they make money that will end up supporting their child, then great. I will never be able to understand why people continue to feel the need to put everything into neat little square boxes instead of embracing diversity. I wish them all the luck in the world and hope they have a long and happy life together.

  43. says

    Can I just quickly interject that I’m delighted to see an intelligent and relatively respectful debate about this issue on Towleroad? This kind of discussion can be very informative and help all of us to investigate our own opinions and prejudices. I particularly like the comments by Hermes in DC and Derrick from Philly. Different viewpoints, but respectfully and eloquently stated. And I never ever thought I’d see a reference to Kant on a Towleroad discussion thread.

    As usual, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. While the couple are clearly receiving benefit through a book deal and an Oprah appearance, I think the important thing now becomes the welfare of the child. Yes, a surrogate might have been a more palatable choice for some, but the fact is that the child has been conceived. The current focus should be on what is best for the child in this case, and the couple should certainly have sought multiple medical opinions as part of their conception efforts.

  44. kipp says

    Apart from concerns about the health of the baby, I don’t see any reason why Thomas and his wife should be prevented from living their lives and having children in whatever way they choose. My problem is the simply weird notion that Thomas is a man – he isn’t. His life does raise very intriguing questions about what being a man or a woman really means and I applaud the challenge to restrictive gender roles he represents – but it’s just incorrect for this story to be titled “Man, 22 weeks pregnant.” Of course, a title of “Woman with breasts removed and facial hair, 22 weeks pregnant” wouldn’t arouse so much interest.
    I friend of mine who lived with a transgender female to (mostly) male made this point: “What if I wanted to be called black? [my friend is white] I’ve got a big bootie and I know how to shake it so what if I wanted everyone to start referring to me as their african american friend?” It’s a darn good point.

    It isn’t an attempt to prevent people from transgressing gender (or racial) stereotypes to wonder why a person born a woman and carrying a child needs to be called a man. I don’t want to pass a law against it or prevent the Thomas’ of the world from doing it. I just want to know why Thomas (who chose to retain his vagina and now is pregnant) has an issue with being perceived as a woman.

  45. chase says

    It just makes you question what decision would you make if you had a transgender child? Would you make them the gender that they are physically closest to or do you do select the opposite gender to what youd prefer it to be. I dont think its fair to chastise him because its his decision the child dosnt have to have any knowledge of how they were concieved until they are an adult. Only suggestion id make is if they want more than one kid they better hav the next one or two back to back while the kids are tooo young to realize what is going on. then when they are adults tell them and i think they would at least appreciate that someone wanted them that much that they went to extream measures to make sure they were born. Love should pull them thorugh not to mention the notion that they prob couldnt afford a sirogate and it was just cheaper and easer to do what they did. Still a lot to swallow but to each its own dont knock him.

  46. webejamming says

    Kipp – What you are asking about goes to the very heart of the binary system our society operates on when it comes to issues of sex (what you are biologically) and gender (what gender your mind is). It is not simply a yes/no man/woman black/white issue. some things do not fit into the box. Some people who’s sex is male have female genders. Some people who have 3 caucasian grandparents and 1 black want to be called black. Some people who are half hispanic and half native identify more with some parts of their background than others and for simplicities sake, choose their labels in a way that would lead people to believe they didn’t want to be called one thing.

    At first when you brought up the race thing i admit i did groan in dismay, but maybe you are right to parallel this gender and sex issue to something that is equally fluid like race.

    It is not only gender representation that is fluid, but also biological sex has many representations too. I think it is a false argument to say that only women who really see themselves as feminine and females and wouldn’t change that gender can and should become pregnant. Who are we to judge that. The reason this story is so big in the first place is that it goes against the grain of what society has said a mother should be.

  47. Derrick from Philly says

    KIPP, tell your friend there are black people with flat asses, and they have no sense of rhythm. They’re called black Conservative Republicans…ever seen Condi Rice try to shake that thaing? Might as well be watching Barbara Bush boogyin’.

    “…big bootie and I know how to shake it”
    Those Norweigians are a caution, aren’t they?

  48. Hermes in DC says

    Regarding possible concerns for the fetus’s health and WEBEJAMMING’s proposition that “If you are going to say the history of hormone use may be endangering the kid, perhaps we ought not go down a road where people need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they have a history which ensures that they will have safe pregnancies and healthy children,” that’s a very reasonable concern and one I thought about before I made my orignal post.

    Two thoughts: first, that kind of slippery slope argument is always an easy one to make, but it too easily becomes a dressed-up shill for a relativist “live and let live” approach which is what’s really at issue here. Ethics and law, for that matter, are about making the tough calls on where the slide down the slippery slope stops.

    Second, hormones remain among the least understood elements of human biology. Any good endocrinologist will admit that.
    In my (complete layman’s) opinion, someone who has been taking massive amounts of male hormones for years as part of a gender reassignment process is in a very different heath state than a woman who has been simply on birth control (although the scienific jury remains out and a raging debate continues about the long term health effects of hormone treatments of various kinds). The person in the former position, to my way of thinking, bears the burden of proof that s/he’s not taking undue risks with the life of this fetus. This pregnancy lies so far on the other side of the line dividing the routine and natural from the out of the ordinary and abnormal–and I mean that in a strictly biological and not normative way–that I think fears of the slipery slope oughtn’t really concern us.

  49. Alex says

    KIPP, I can’t be offended by your funny comment towards women, as there are no grounds for that. The main point is – he has a problem being called/seen a woman, as he is a MAN. Having female reproductive system does NOT mean having a “woman soul”, whatever this absurd phrase might stand for. What you do with your genitalia can not define who you are. It’s your own business.

    There is considerable amount of gay men, who never engage in anal sex. Well, maybe, based on your brilliant logic, we should declare them UNTRUE gays, and ask them why is that they have problem being referred to as STRAIGHT – they don’t take it up the ass now, do they? What’s that wishful thinking about being gay?

    Well, KIPP, thing is, gay sex is not about taking it up the ass, but having ALL kinds of sex with another MALE. And yes, being trans is not about having phaloplasty, it’s about BEING a man. Which has nothing to do with the presence/absence of a dick. There are nullos and eunuchs – maybe we should boldly just exclude them from the MANkind at all, too?

    As for your friend – his logic is acceptable if he’s either 4 yo, or a… well, you know. There are relevant and IRrelevant, consistent and INconsistent examples, and if he is unable to make the difference, it’s quite bothering. Maybe he, or both of you, should spend some time [freaking LOTS of time] reading anthropology and gender studies, and when you are clear about the subjects like race and gender, to enter the discussion again.

  50. Peg says

    This person needs to make up his/her mind. Does he/she want to be a man or a women. If he/she still has a vagina, my question is where did the sperm come from to make the baby in the first place.

    What a magic act!!!

    Can’t people just be happy with themselves and what God created them to be?

  51. Blake says

    My heavens Hermes, you present me with a serious ethical quandary now! Because, I wanna have like 10,000 of your babies, but I’m a man too!! Seriously though, your command of logic and rational skepticism is a rare and welcome quality. If only more people were nearly as thoughtful.

  52. fifi says

    a person with a vagina and ovaries is female,
    removing your breasts or having small ones+ tecnically repressing your period, a man does not make!

    this is just silly. if you feel trapped in the body of a woman and youre a man, you go all the way.
    she just likes wearing men’s clothes and shaving. that is not a transexual, its a transvestite.

  53. Johnny says

    Wow,reading through these postings has really opened my eyes and (although I did not think it possible) made me feel less human and even further disconnected from the LGBT community.
    Being an FTM has given me a very different journey in life than most (if not all) of you.
    From my perspective surgery is a future priority but the fact that is so expensive makes it unobtainable.
    Hats off to Thomas, he is taking a big risk physically (the fetus and himself) and socially. By making this a public affair he is raising awareness not only of his situation but of some of the challenges that transsexuals face.
    No one likes to be challenged especially with something that is often seen as being concrete, like gender or sexuality, when people don’t fit into the socially constructed boxes it causes conflict and sometimes violence.
    I have been confronted daily with both physical and verbal threats since I came out when I was fifteen. I am sad to see that the community I thought I belonged to still rejects and dehumanizes trans individuals.
    Getting back on topic, Congratulations to Thomas!

  54. Derrick from Philly says

    JOHNNY:

    You’re going to have to pick and choose what gay people are worth your time and friendship & loyalty. ‘Cause all of them aint.
    God Bless folks like you for your courage…I guess SHE/HE already did by making y’all so brave. I haven’t had the kind of courage you have since I was a teenager.

  55. GRAHAM says

    Greg said above that he was surprised that the LGBs were all putting the boot into the T camp. But, I have never understood why LGBT is all lumped into one acroynm. Lesbians, gays and bisexuals share a sexual orientation. People who want to have their bodies amended to change gender are something completely different. Now, T people also have a sexual orientation, and there may be a common interest there, but donkeys have sexual orientations and we don’t have LGBD groups to include donkeys. So, I say drop the T.

    As for this pregnancy, I only hope to God that the baby is born alive and has a happy and contented life.

  56. Vi Agara says

    Lots of the Hillery lovin liberals on here aghast over this situation. Live and let live applies to everyone “gurls”. Another reason why liberals make me want to vomit. Best of luck to this couple. In a few years male couples are going to be able to conceive a child of there own without a female involved. The gene splitting is figured out, the egg can be de- DNA’d and the lucite uterus has been invented in Japan.

    Freedom to all and for all.

  57. ocaptain says

    I know my thoughts on this will not be well received but when I read this article in the Advocate, I felt angry about “Thomas” rather obvious selfish hypocrisy. It took years to come to terms with my “real self” and I never considered surgery or medication to change my “legal identity”. I learned to accept and live with who God made me. I even tolerated discrimination and fear while serving 20 years in the military. The whole transgender band wagon has turned into a carnival side show. I’m sorry, Thomas, you are a woman by every definition except “legally” and now you only want that to apply when you wish. Get over yourself and leave the gay community out of it. We have enough to deal with.

  58. HOTCEOGUY says

    Hey I am very trans supportive. But trans is trans. Clearly if she maintains female “equipment” she is not male. Title should read “This Woman is 22 Weeks Pregnant”

  59. Wheezy says

    I think the reason FTM transgendered folks don’t go in for the complete surgery (like MTF) is because it has a very low success rate. Thomas Beatie may have wanted to go ‘all the way’ but is not able to and so went as far as the doctor was capable. Besides that, transgendered means gender in transit. For some folks the trip takes longer than others. Also, if he knew his wife Nancy was not capable of carrying a pregnancy, that might also have been a reason to keep the unwanted lady parts.

    How is this different than a MTF choosing to go to a sperm bank and preserve their sperm for future use?

  60. Brad says

    Can we say “Attention Whores”? No one can tell me that they didn’t do this for the attention – media and otherwise. I have difficulty with a number of people who claim to be trans. I think there are some legitimately trans people, but (just like all these collegiate “bi” girls) I think its trendy amongst some very damaged people to claim to be trans. I would be fascinated to find out what a psychiatrist would discover after putting this “dude” in long term therapy.

  61. says

    “Woman” and “man” are socially constructed.

    “Male” and “female” are scientific terms.

    To those of you calling Mr. Beatie a “woman”, become a little more conversant in the English language before you run in spouting your judgments.

    That said:

    1% of births are intersex, meaning that a person very well *could* grow up male-assigned and find out they had female parts, or vice versa.

    Lots of people are at risk for complications in having a baby — women who’ve had a previous miscarriage, women nearing menopause, heck, as someone pointed out above, women who’ve been on birth control for years can have trouble, too. Women with PCOS make their own testosterone and often sprout beards. But if they conceive, it’s always congratulations all ’round.

    Questioning the ethics of someone who wants to have a child because they have difficulty getting good medical care is kind of ridiculous when you consider that poor people and ethnic minorities have difficulty getting good medical care. What’s more, there’s a certain amount of prejudice against getting the medical care in the first place amongst, say, Native Americans and Black people whose ancestors were maliciously endangered by medical experiments. I should hope that no one’s seriously advocating that people whose access to medical care is blocked by the dominant culture shouldn’t breed.

    Or perhaps those naysayers really do believe in eugenics?

    Probably so, and I don’t want to hear it. The ignorance in this thread astounds and disgusts me. I sometimes don’t believe how poorly educated the American people are, on average, until I see examples.

    Thank you, Johnny, Derrick, Alex and others, for being dissenting voices.

  62. webejamming says

    Wow, you leave for a few days and look what happens! Thankyou Amberite!

    I am astounded at the previous posts – “kick the trans people out of the community, they’re not really in it in the first place,” ??? “if she’s got a uterus then it doesn’t matter what gender she sees herself as SHE’S A WOMAN!” ??? “using testosterone could cause problems with the baby…..” ???

    Who the hell are we to judge?

    Are trans people not just as prone to discrimination do to their identity as any gay, lesbian, bisexual, or queer person? That this discrimination raises it’s head in different ways does not mean that society and especially everyone else in the community should turn their backs on them. How ridiculous!

    EDUCATE YOURSELF ON THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SEX AND GENDER BEFORE YOU MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT WHAT HIS GENDER IS. Maybe (as Amberite suggests above) do a bit of research on the statistics of intersexed people. Or maybe we could just go on thinking that if a person doesn’t fit into one of the two boxes that our society thinks of as being male/masculine/man and female/feminine/woman then we should just throw them out. Oh, you’re right, that last one would be a whole lot easier, but would it be right?

    Where do we get the right to tell him what he can and can’t do because in the past he’s taken hormones? Unless you are a biologist or a gynocologist who’s actually done long term studies on these effects or something maybe then, but honestly people, do you really think that every drug we have is fully studied for it’s effects on the later pregnancys of the patients? If you do then you should think again. Almost none of them are studied on human patients (rats and mice maybe). And i don’t think that my argument, as suggested above, that my linking this example to long term birth control use (ALSO HORMONES) would be anything remotely similar to previous male hormone use is a slippery slope. I was merely stating that we are all content to sit on the sidelines and do nothing until we see an example that too pushes the limits of sexuality and gender.

    It’s not about the baby’s health at all. If you held those opinions then you would be championing for tougher measures across the board, and not even the march of dimes is doing that. They go after the obvious (and rightly so, not saying they shouldn’t) causes like alcohol and drug use.

    Wow, again, I cannot believe the bigotry. ??? Kick the T out of GLBT ???? good grief!

  63. snuggys says

    You know what? GOOD ON THEM!!! Congrats on the pregnancy, and I wish you both all the best!!!

    There are too many people in this world who are so hypocritical, ignorant, biased and uneducated…..they really don’t deserve an opinion. I have seen sooooo many people (straight people) who have a child (or children) who should NOT be allowed to reproduce it’s not even funny. I even knew a girl who, when she ran out of milk, mixed Coffee Mate with water and fed this to her baby!!! Just because your lesbian, gay, transgender, WHATEVER……as long as you’re a good parent, I don’t really care who or what you are. I truly wish that people would open their eyes and expand their minds. There is so much beauty out there to see, hear and feel.

  64. Unbeliever says

    To all who are upset, shocked, disgusted, etc:

    Why aren’t you horrified at the way they have been treated by medical staff? Doctors and nurses are supposed to be true to their vocations and treat everyone with respect and dignity, no matter what their perceived gender/sex.

    Women who conceive in their 30s have HUGE rates of miscarriage and the risk of their children having a genetic disorder is greatly multiplied.

    And it isn’t a one-way street: Thomas is risking his own life to have the baby.

    Get off your f**king soapboxes and campaign for universal healthcare and doctors who actually give a sh!t about their patients.

  65. Rachel says

    Doctors initially didn’t treat the couple on moral and religious grounds, not because the procedure wasn’t safe. The doctors who went ahead with the fertilization would have been legally bound to prove the parent and child were safe before anyone got pregnant.

    The argument that the kid is going to be emotionally screwed up is no different from the argument kids raised by gay couples are troubled. There’s no evidence for it. What matters is that the parents love and support their child. That’s how you produce an emotionally stable individual.

    Depending on the state, in the US a transman can’t be legally male until they’ve had “bottom surgery”. Bottom surgery doesn’t necessarily entail the removal of the female reproductive organs. There are some states that allow one to be legally male if they’ve lived as a man for at least a year. Some of them still have boobs.

    Gender is what sex we mentally identify ourselves as. Sex is the class we’re put in based on our reproductive organs. Transgendered people are transgendered from the moment they realise they’re in the wrong body. They don’t need surgery to be a true transgendered person. Some don’t need surgery to accept themselves as another sex. Some only need top surgery. It depends on the individual and their mind set. It’s ludicrous to say, unless you have had every possible surgery to physically change your sex, that you’re still a woman. Gender is mental.

  66. ummmm says

    Are you people retarded?? (I have lesbian roommates whom I love with my entire heart so don’t even attempt to say that I’m anywhere near homophobic) If this woman decided to become a man, then it should stay that way. End of story! How SELFISH can a person be?! If this child survives (let’s hope so) he/she may face so many health problems because of all the crap this person was taking! It’s like a woman drinking and smoking during pregnancy!!!!! They should have reached out for a surrogate mother. Secondly, why whore out their story to all media? Again, if this child survives, everyone’s going to look at him/her as a “freak show product”!!! They are NOT taking that child’s safety into consideration!!!!! It’s one thing for a gay couple to adopt–I’m FOR it–but it’s another thing for someone to say “my daddy conceived me”. When this child is old enough to talk and ask her/his parents where babies come from what are they going to say? “Well, when two people love eachother very much, they have sex and then a baby grows in the MOMMY’S belly”???? NOPE. Wrong.

  67. T says

    Now I don’t agree that he should’ve gotten pregnant because I feel as though if you went thru all this trouble to become a man…like myself that you should continue to live your life as one. It’s contradictive. Yes I understand that his wife cannot conceive but that’s what they have other safer options for. And as far as the idiot who called testosterone “crap”…to you it may be “crap” because your not taking it but for those of us who…it’s one of the best things put on earth for people like us.

  68. L2L says

    Wow! Not only did Beatie tamper with the natural (the emotional and physical scars are there to prove it) but to bring a child into this whole mess is atrocious!
    And no one sees anything wrong with this!?

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