1. John in Manhattan says

    I say leave it as it is as a reminder of the holocaust against gays that continues today. Put Lawrence King’s 15yo skeleton inside and drape a Jamaican flag over the thing. We’ll call it Huckabee’s Place.

  2. Leland Frances says

    Doesn’t change the fact that the insulting design across the street still reduces us to a concrete outhouse containing people defining us as looped foreplay—separating us literally and figurativley from not just other Holocaust victims but also the human race. There’s as much reason to believe gays with brains attacked it as homophobes.

    And your source [“half covered by the bushes of Tiergarten (quite fitting I must admit}”] does us little better by reducing us to people who only have sex in the bushes. But perhaps he’s projecting. Never having heard of him I checked some of his other entries only to stop after deducing that he might be a good candidate for a NAMBLA officer and before another kind of officer knocked down my door for viewing his teen soft [?] porn unawares.

  3. the queen says

    i tell you, the sight of two men kissing is still so controversial and pushes many a button… makes you wonder why the memorial had to be segregated, what the protests where all about and did the jews discriminate against the gays while in the camps…. who knows the real story behind all this..

  4. Bosie says

    I find it Ironic that jews descriminate against other groups and they don’t want to be descriminated against…same with other minorities…Well, this goes to show how the world work, what a bunchof crap all these groups are…mostly when it comes to the holocust i don’t like hearing about it.

  5. Derrick from Phiily says


    it’s amazing…you write/speak in stronger Ebonics than I do. Are we “passing”, dear? Come on, it’s 2008…even Vin Diesel wouldn’t try that shit.

  6. GM says

    The incorporation of fragile technology, e.g., a video screen, into a memorial, which by definition is intended to withstand the vicissitudes of time and the elements (human or otherwise), is just plain silly. If it wasn’t a bigot’s fist that would end the looping film, it would have been a breakdown of the constituent parts.

  7. John M says

    Maybe it is just me but that video strikes me as a little bit tacky. It comes of to me as more of the start of a pornographic video then a sweet moment between lovers.

  8. JP says

    Not only do I think they should leave it damaged, I think they should carve the date of the incident on the side of it. Every time it’s vandalized in the future they should carve another date…

  9. says

    To Leland Frances:

    Tiergarten plays an important part in German and therefore European gay history. Like it or not, but cruising was the main way for gay men to meet at the time. They did so in Tiergarten, and that’s why the memorial was placed there, after discussions with Berlin’s gay museum.

    Furthermore, criticizing ppl who are “reducing us” to this or that is accepting the homophobes’ silly arguments that gays are this or that. Come on. No one should have to represent anyone else.

  10. Leland Frances says

    Dear Destroyer Editor: If you spent less time drooling over teenage boys, excuse me “celebrating male adolescent beauty,” and more time reading about the history of homosexuality in Germany about which you choose to pontificate, you wouldn’t embarrass yourself by saying that “cruising was the main way for gay men to meet at the time.” “Cruising,” in all its forms, always is—wherever. And WHICH “time”? Nor did I remotely suggest that there never was any cruising in Tiergarten.

    But perhaps your errors are just because English is not your first language, and you’re primarily demonstrating the pitfalls of reading/writing about complicated issues in languages with which one is not entirely comfortable.

    In any case, in fact, despite the antigay law Paragraph 175, in the Weimar Republic years between the end of WWI and 1933 when the Reich aggressively began to try to erase German gays, there were many options in Berlin for meeting other gay men, so many that its reputation attracted gay tourists from other countries. Historian Frank Rector [“The Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals”] estimates that there were more gay bars and periodicals in 1920 Berlin than there were in 1980 New York. Some estimates range as high as 100 LGBT establishments by ’33.

    And whatever input the Schwule Museum had, the fact remains that the location was chosen for its proximity to the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe. Further, it could be constructed from the hardened semen of millions of your favorite teenages boys and it would still look like a concrete crapper.

    Of course “no one should have to represent anyone else,” but they do, Blanche, they do. Hence the memorial’s name isn’t “For SOME Gay Holocaust Victims.”

  11. says

    Thanks for the history lesson, Leland. I obviously didn’t refer to the voluptuous 20’s and early 30’s, but to the Nazi time when gays in fact were persecuted. I thought that was obvious since that’s what the memorial is about. Silly you.

    But that’s beside the point, which is that you don’t want gay men to be reduced to having sex, which is the most predictable and selfhating view a gay man can have. I have the opposite view, meaning that is *exactly* what we should be “reduced” to, because that’s the only thing we have in common – men having sex with men.

    When you subscribe to the “representation theory”, every gay man who sticks out the slightest becomes a threat, since he represents you, and you feel the need to exclaim things like “I’m not a sissy!” or “I don’t like teens!”.

    Hence the drool-phobia, I guess.

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