08/18/2008
Obama and McCain Spar at Saddleback Church Forum
Barack Obama tussled with John McCain in a forum over the weekend at Pastor Rick Warren's Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, in the first quasi 'debate' between the two candidates. McCain was largely seen to have won the night by giving definitive answers that pleased the largely right-leaning religious crowd.
Politico analyzes six key moments from the debate and DailyKos has a round-up of some of the pundits' reactions.
Pam Spaulding takes down McCain on adultery over at LGBT for Obama.
There have been suggestions that McCain may have been better prepared for his questions because the "cone of silence" he was supposedly in while Obama was being asked his questions was the comfort of his personal limo where he could have been watching the debate. Andrea Mitchell suggested as much on Meet the Press and received a terse letter from McCain's campaign manager Rick Davis.
Other notes, McCain's definition of rich? $5 million.
The candidates were also asked about same-sex marriage.
Obama: "I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman...Now, for me as a Christian, it's also a sacred union. God's in the mix...The reason that people think there needs to be a constitutional amendment, some people believe, is because of the concern about same-sex marriage...I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage, but I do believe in civil unions."
McCain's answer: "Union - a union between man and a woman, between one man and one woman. That's my definition of marriage."
Watch the clip of Obama's same-sex marriage answer, AFTER THE JUMP...
Sphere: Related ContentPosted 10:48 AM EST by Andy | Permalink
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Andrea Mitchell at NBC and now the NYT are saying that mc-cheater was not in a "cone of silence" and had an advantage in knowing the questions ahead of time.
CNN is now reporting on it and the REV himself in charge of the whole thing is saying that mc-cheater was NOT in a 'cone of silence". mc-lie claims he was and thus is lieing through his old cheating teeth.
SHAME on mc-cheater mcshame
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Aug 18, 2008 11:00:24 AM
Fuck them both in Jesus' name.
Posted by: John in Manhattan | Aug 18, 2008 11:04:21 AM
Even more, it is now possible mc-lie is lieing about his pow stories
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicalinsider
/2008/08/is-mccain-now-copying-solzheni.html
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Aug 18, 2008 11:06:07 AM
what is it about these FAT pastors and preachers everywhere... now the congregation knows where all those donations are going... many trips to mcdonalds! as for the debates, DISGUSTING.. the founding fathers are spinning in their graves ... separation of church and state honey.... looks like both candidates sucked up to the jesus freaks..
Posted by: the queen | Aug 18, 2008 11:06:23 AM
Fascinating... there was virtually NO pre-forum promotion here in Rhode Island. Nothing. All I caught of it were the post-what-ever-the-fuck-this-was pundits talking about the "Maxwell Smart" "Cone of Silence" and re-broadcast if McDickheads smirky entrance.
Posted by: Rad | Aug 18, 2008 11:14:53 AM
mcgeezer is looking more and more dangerous while obama continues to disappoint. call me a sore winner, but i don't think hillary would be such a pansy.
Posted by: nic | Aug 18, 2008 11:20:14 AM
Now, now, now...Sis, THE QUEEN and Brother JOHN from the Big Apple:
A Christian 's gotta' do what a Christian 's gotta' do.
As excruciating as it is to watch/listen/smell the Obama Campaign is trying something the Kerry and Gore Campaign did not...trying to convince the fundies that Democrats love Jesus too.
Who are the last two Democratic candidates for president who made it a point to proclaim their love for the Lord?
Carter and Clinton...get the message?
Posted by: Derrick from Philly | Aug 18, 2008 11:23:43 AM
Sorry, Jimmy mon ami, but McCheat's knowing the EXACT questions before is irrelevant. The kind of issues this crowd are obsessed about are well-known and Obama had NO excuse not to be letter-perfect, particularly in ways of finessing his differences with their known positions and changing the subject better to issues about which they can agree ["family," hard work [he came real close talking about his grandparents but still sounded like an out-of-touch, privileged egghead himself], freedom to think what you wish, government out of bedroom and off the backs of our personal choices—answer to "God" not Uncle Sam]. His responses read like someone who showed up not having studied for the test. Bottom line: OBAMA FUCKED UP BIG TIME! And, having been raised among such people, I'm sadly confidant that he just lost the vote of 99% of any who might have still been undecided—in the room and every one of the millions who will hear about it in various ways.
So he should kiss them goodbye and take from it what IS positive—quotes from McShame to use against him in 365-24-7 commercials and print ads that a 12-yr. old could script, emphasis mine:
McShame: "[Gen. Petraeus] took us from defeat to VICTORY in Iraq" — OK then!!! We CAN bring the troops home now if we've already won.
One of the three top people McShame would ask for advice is black civil rights icon John Lewis. Great! Lewis's advice: ELECT BARACK OBAMA!
And, so what if Obama Pimp Spaulding has thrown huge amounts of shade on McShame re his adultery? No mainstream voters know who she is, and few undecided gays, so her comments however accurate will go unread by those who need to hear them.
Obama left a San Francisco fundraiser last night allegedly $7 million richer, after raising $52 million more in July. We'd better see some better use of all that cash soon. Voter opinions seem to be hardening faster than quick cement on a hot summer day. And the election is less than 90 days away.
Posted by: Leland Frances | Aug 18, 2008 11:28:25 AM
So the civil rights he wants to give civil unions is HOSPITAL VISITAION RIGHTS?!?
WOW when will this "enlightened" man move the dialogue past such an enbarrassingly low threshold. For someone who is supposed to bring the conversation to the table of those who have a different perspective THIS IS WELL BELOW THE LEVEL WE AS DEMOCRATS MUST DEMAND from our perspective nominee.
Oh wait...we need to just shut up and keep silent...cause ..."where else are we gonna go"?
Posted by: MCnNYC | Aug 18, 2008 11:29:29 AM
I now have more understanding of the people who say they can't in good conscience vote for Obama. I still think they're fools but after watching him say that "god" is the reason for denying same-sex relationships equal governmental recognition.... separation of church and state? Separate but equal? Laws to prevent people like his parents from marrying? Biblical injunctions that would have kept him a slave?
It disgusts me.
Posted by: Gordo | Aug 18, 2008 11:29:55 AM
I get the message and Obama is getting my vote. However, I'm going to need intensive care if I hear the "they should be allowed hospital visits and thats enough" line of crap one more time.
Posted by: John in Manhattan | Aug 18, 2008 11:33:23 AM
make that "if" a "when".
Posted by: John in Manhattan | Aug 18, 2008 11:37:44 AM
I cannot and will not reward Obama with my vote since he insists on making our basic civil rights a moral issue. Sure, he throws us the "civil union" scrap, but when it comes down to it he isn't any better than McCain on this issue. How any gay or lesbian person could vote for either one of these boobs is beyond me.
Posted by: Lawrence | Aug 18, 2008 11:54:51 AM
haha what a bunch of crap, I always knew this about Obama and thats why I'm keeping my vote..and I'm sure he will pick a white old male as his VP...the same shit agains with nicer speeches and a different skin color...fuck them both
Posted by: Bosie | Aug 18, 2008 11:59:06 AM
Fuck Barak Obama! What an asshole. In case he forgot, he is the bi-racial son of a mixed race couple, who's relationship was outlawed in the recent past for the same sort of "gawd" reasons that are being used to deny marriage equality today. His answer shows no leadership, insight or backbone. He lost my respect completely. Bow down to the christo-fascists Barak!
Posted by: busytimmy | Aug 18, 2008 12:00:24 PM
Um, because I don't want another Scalia on the Supreme Court.
Posted by: John in Manhattan | Aug 18, 2008 12:00:25 PM
Come sit by me, Lawrence!
"God's in the mix"? What "mix"? Bisquick ?
Senator Obama should read the decision handed down by the California State Supeme Court, which spelled out in detail why "domestic partnerships" do not grant anywhere near the same rights as marriage -- which is why the court decided in favor of same-sex marriage.
Not that he gives shit.
FUCK HIM AND HIS "GOD"!!!!!!
Posted by: David Ehrenstein | Aug 18, 2008 12:07:35 PM
Point well mentioned, John In Manhattan. John McCain wants nine Scalias and Thomases on SCOTUS. If that doesn't scare the crap out of the LGBTQ community you must be brain dead.
Posted by: Gary | Aug 18, 2008 12:09:16 PM
NAZI_RELIGIOUS_RIGHT_WING....Obama is trying to please them? FUCK HIM....McCain and Obama aint any different, If Obama is bending backwards imagine what he would do the next 4yrs to please those crazy nazis-right wing
Posted by: Bosie | Aug 18, 2008 12:20:39 PM
Obama is weak, but the consequences of a McCain presidency are too frightening not to vote for Obama. I'd love to go with my conscience on this election (and vote Green), but there's too much at stake if McCain wins.
Posted by: scientitian | Aug 18, 2008 12:24:20 PM
Gary, McCain wants scabies on his SCROTUM?
Posted by: h_w | Aug 18, 2008 12:26:04 PM
Sending all my love and pity to gay Americans -- I can not believe I am heading to my 5th Anniversary of my legal marriage! Not a single party, including the conservatives here in Canada, is willing to deny gay people equal rights. And yet in the U.S. not a single candidate is FOR equal rights!
Fuck John McCain.
Fuck Barack Obama.
Ellen for President.
Posted by: Strepsi | Aug 18, 2008 12:31:16 PM
Whine and misrepresent all ya want.....I have one question for the ideologues assembled here....remember Nader in 2000?
We will get the government we deserve.
Posted by: Rocco | Aug 18, 2008 12:35:42 PM
I remember watching a Mike Dukakis interview from about ten years ago about how he was not so much blindsided by the "rape" question in '88 as bored by it. They get these questions all the time when campaigning.
To think that Bob Barr is now (after much soul searching apparently) to the left of Obama on gay rights is a tad unnerving. I think this comes down to Barack wanting 99% of the black vote, which means getting only about 50-75% of the gay vote. It's a trade-off he's willing to make. Who knows, Clarance Thomas will probably vote for him now.
Posted by: anon | Aug 18, 2008 12:36:24 PM
DAVID,
I'm glad you mentioned the California State Supreme Court because THAT's where the issue of same sex marriage will be settled: the state and federal courtts. That's where Barack's mother and father were guaranteed their right to marry. And ultimatley, it will be the United States Supreme Court that will make the ulitmate decision on this issue. Who the hell do y'all want to decide who the hell will sit on that highest of courts? Tell 'em JOHN from MANHATTAN (they may listen to you--they know I love Slim Jim too much).
Y'all need to calm down. We need a lot less Shelly Winters here, and a lot more Lauren Bacall. Cool it, homos.
Posted by: Derrick from Philly | Aug 18, 2008 12:38:27 PM