Comments

  1. Chris says

    I am sorry, but this is ridiculous. It isn’t transphobia, it’s marketing the message. The day was not about trans issues, or immigration issues or anything else. Trying to insert your particular cause into the day is equivalent to trying to hang a pro choice banner from the podium, or any other political cause. The “trans” community fell all over themselves criticizing the New York marriage bill, and complaining that same sex marriage was making progress, what right do they have to insert themselves there? My unfortunate experiences with trans activists are that there is no concern for end result, no ability to stay on message, and no ability to understand that politics requires discipline.

  2. Erma E Diaz says

    “two unfortunate incidents” Talk about an understatement! “It’s very sad when ignorance rears it’s ugly head in our own community. H.R.C should be ashamed that they allowed these incidents to occurr. What was the reason they gave for wanting the flag removed and for the speach to be modified?

  3. Cam says

    Why would this surprise anybody? HRC attacked the people who filed the original court cases that are now before the Supreme Court that will end up getting us marriage. They attacked the people that filed the original cases in places like MA and Iowa. They attacked gays a few years ago telling us all to sit down and shut up and stop bothering our “Friends” in Congress while they voted against us. They said that these people were our friends but gay issues were too dangerous for them to support so we needed to allow them to vote against us. They attacked DAn Choi and Get Equal and any other group that seemed to be making any kind of progress…

    And now, after ALL that, they seem to be trying to claim some kind of credit for those cases before the Supreme Court even though they had nothing to do with it….

    No, this story doesn’t surprise me at all.

  4. sean says

    This is ridiculous. Apologize?

    We’re trying to accomplish something huge here, and throwing another separate and polarizing issue into the mix (illegal immigration) DOESN’T help our cause.

    Sorry you or your parents came here illegally, but it’s not our problem (“our” being legal US citizens who are trying to get equal marriage rights). Throwing in other issues is just a thorn in our side.

    (Now cue all the screaming, hysterical queens who will say I’m a racist or something.)

  5. says

    There should be a law against LGBT people calling other LGBT people “queers”, but especially undocumented LGBT people. Isn’t it bad enough that they’re stigmatized as “aliens”? This eagerness of certain sex and gender activists to identify with the oppressor and appropriate his insulting language makes me sick to my stomach!

  6. mechaboy says

    chris – “same-sex” marriage doesn’t just impact the ability to GET MARRIED. if that lovely queer immigrant is unable to marry their special person, they are subject to deportation. and there are many, many examples of trans* individuals having their marraige dissolved by the state because it was ruled a “same-sex” marriage.

    HRC has a piss-poor track record for any issue that isn’t marketable to a wide audience. anything that threatens the homogenous status quo (queers, trans* folks, POC, etc).

  7. Wilberforce says

    This is the usual bad strategy of the trans community. They ruined enda for us years ago. Now we’re supposed to let everyone and their second cousin grandstand on this issue.
    Queue the name calling from the self-righteous crowd who know jack about political strategy.

  8. says

    @brian – you do realize there are gay and lesbian trans people right? if two gay trans men want to get married, it is still very much illegal for them to in many places.

    please educate yourself.

  9. says

    actually, transpeople are not to blame for ENDA not passing. do you know why the path to Equality is taking so bloody long in the USA? because so many of you gay men are such pathetic little cowards that you don’t have the spines to actually stand up, speak out, unite TOGETHER and work for a good of all.

    anti-trans gay men: screw you wimps. you deserve every ounce of the misery that makes up your lives.

    whether it’s that Jesus-freak Stuffy with his usual “don’t say queer!” nonsense, to the nameless, faceless anonymous crowd that spew anti-trans b.s. from behind their internet burqas – you guys are the reason progress is going so slowly.

    you’re so whipped by prejudice that you can’t even be a real man and stand in solidarity with others who are being discriminated against.

    *barf*

  10. Homo Genius says

    Cant Trans people get their own freaking movement and let us go back to being gay instead of ABCDEFG….

    @Kiwi.. it isnt prejudice. It simply has NOTHING to do with me. Just because we are gay doesnt me we instantly care more about trans issues than anyone else. I support many women’s issues but lots of them just arent one of my priorities. That doesnt make me anti woman.

  11. bandanajack says

    i am putting my faith in chad griffin, who formed AFER that worked so smoothly, and who himself had run-ins with the old leadership of HRC. he took the position with a clear idea of the changes needed in HARC and set about to make them. the unqualified rapid apology seems to me a good example of new leadership in action.

  12. sugarrhill says

    I bet you the same Gay men that blame ENDA not passing due to trans language and that want them dropped from the LGBT family are the same Gay Men that believe black people should support our community because they’ve suffered the same indignities that we have suffered yet can’t see the irony. United we stand. Divided we fall.

  13. says

    Homo Genius – you prove me right. your kind always does.

    so you only care about things that directly pertain to you? congrats – your parents failed you and your lack of empathy, compassion and cojones are duly noted.

    time and time again, anti-trans gay men reveal themselves to be the scum of our community.

  14. Skeptical Cicada says

    What trans flag? I thought we were all to be forced to do everything together in unison. No?

    Fine by me. Separate flag; separate employment discrimination bill. Let’s go!

  15. redball says

    u self-serving homos make me sick. for the record, THIS homo is proud to stand with the LGB *and* T. we can’t forsake the T. trans people are “the least among us” and i dont get my rights by forsaking those of my brothers and sisters.

  16. redball says

    and people who dont know how to do INTERSECTIONALITY activism (look it up) need to stay on the sidelines. most people embody multiple marginalized identities.

  17. Derrick from Philly says

    When a bigot wants to insult a Gay man what slur is the most likely one he’ll use? F.ggot.

    When a bigot wants to insult a Transwoman what slur is the most likely one he’ll use? F.ggot.

    We have something in common.

  18. Francis says

    Resentment and hatred towards gay people by the “trans community” is really what this all about. They have not supported gay marriage equality and have tried to usurp the movement for their own ends (to become “normal” heterosexuals).

  19. Derrick from Philly says

    That is a different Francis that just posted, isn’t it? Not the same Francis who comments regularly, and I believe is from the Washintion DC area.

  20. DB says

    There is no reason a transgender flag would need to be at a marriage rally – it has nothing to do with transgender people (who can already legally marry in every state). This is ridiculous. Once again the homophobic transgender fascists are trying to trans-jack the gay civil rights movement. Regarding illegal aliens, it goes without saying that they should not be included in any marriage laws. Once identified they should be immediately deported to their home countries.

  21. DB says

    Any time we throw in irrelevant issues like gender identity issues and immigration issues, we are weakening the focus and defeating ourselves. A rally for marriage and equality should not include such irrelevant groups.

  22. Dana says

    Shame on HRC for groveling. It won’t win them a moment’s grace, because these “queer” and trans activists live only to attack. And there is nothing they love to attack more than gay organizations.

    Trans activists attack LGB organizations and people because they are furious that LGBs have the audacity to spend time and money on gay civil rights, as opposed to the list of bizarre issues of trans activists. Trans activists would have HRC spend its time supporting taxpayer-funded hormone therapy for convicted felons and male access to female bathrooms. In fact, to its shame, HRC does support these wacko trans issues, but for trans activists, that isn’t enough.

    “Queer” activists, by their own self-definition, see themselves as inherently marginalized and oppressed. They want gay people to see themselves that way so that LGBs can serve as a sort of permanent army in a war on societal norms. So they get upset when LGBs make progress within mainstream society. Queer activists are nothing more than the flipside of anti-gay Christian activists: they both have an interest in seeing LGBs as marginalized, radicals.

    HRC should give a big middle finger to both of these tiny, angry groups and reclaim its identity as a civil rights organization for lesbians, gays and bisexuals.

  23. Wilberforce says

    Dana,
    I partly agree. But I would actually welcome trans people into our movement, if they would learn to act strategically, and would stop attacking us. But they won’t. Why should they when our leadership has already bought their bull—-.
    The comments above say it all. They say they didn’t foil enda, of course without offering evidence. But they can’t offer evidence to the contrary, because they did ruin enda for us. If they would admit it and promise to behave themselves in the future. But again, why should they when the gay movement has been successfully duped.

  24. GregV says

    @Brian and @DB: I don’t know where you got the mistaken idea that trans people can marry all over the US.
    There is a mish-mash of laws that vary from state to state. In every state, a trans person’s degree of marriage rights depends on both the sex of the trans person’s spouse and on the way the state classifies the trans person’s sex.
    In some states, a FTM trans person can get a marriage license only if his spouse is male and in othet states ONLY if his spouse is female, and in still other states, court precedents allow a judge to “decide” whether the trans person’s chromosomes or other factors such as genitals will “count more” and he can grant or deny the right to marry based on his own whims.
    Trans prople will never have equal rights before the US has rid itself of the same sex discrimination that affects gay and bi people.

    @Sean: I see your point about how the issue of illegal immigration could be a distraction regarding cases where thst issue is not connected to discrimination based on sex and orientation.
    But many undocumented immigrants would automatically have documents if only their spouse were of the opposite sex, so in that sense it is very much an issue connected to marriage equality.

  25. says

    Dana and Wilberforce, you guys make me sick. We don’t want your filth staining the LGBT rights movement. The H in HRC stands for HUMAN and the last I heard the L, G, B, and T are all humans. The lack of integrity and selfishness I am seeing on this comment board is really disheartening.

  26. Pete Horath says

    LOL! If gay people speak for themselves, they are attacked for not being “trans inclusive.” But transgenders have their own flag – which they demand that HRC fly. And they have their own segregated T-only organizations – funded with gay money.

    This whole effort to merge gay people with trannies is the biggest scam in the history of politics. LGBT does not exist in the real world. It is a political creation, designed to capture LGB groups and redirect their money and political capital away from gay civil rights and towards a war on the “gender binary.”

  27. Derrick from Philly says

    “This whole effort to merge gay people with trannies is the biggest scam in the history of politics.”

    They were “merged” from the 1980s on back. I can’t remember a separation until the conformists came out of their closets.

  28. Dana says

    @Dana:

    I am certain that the inclusion of “gender identity” destroyed our shot at passing ENDA, and thus left millions of LGB people vulnerable to discrimination. The lead sponsor of the bill said as much.

    You cannot just slip in an entirely new category to federal antidiscrimination law without a lot of preliminary work. Congress never even held a single hearing focused on the gender identity issue, let alone the extensive hearings they would want before they imposed a federal burden on private businesses. HRC was bullied into taking an “all or nothing” position, so we got nothing. After 40 years of effort, we lost it all because our groups are bullied into prioritizing the demands of heterosexual crossdressers over the civil rights of LGBs.

    BTW, the same pattern has repeated itself in local bills, such as the one in Anchorage. LGB Alaskans have been fighting for that for 35 years, but then they were forced to add “transgender identity” to their bill. The opposition focused almost entirely on that part of the bill. It was voted down 59%-41% and probably will not be considered again for a decade.

    @Bryce:

    Um, yeah using your logic, HRC should be concentrating on political prisoners in Burma and unlawful detentions in Russia and labor conditions in India. Burmese and Russians and Indians are human too.

  29. Dana says

    Sorry, the above reply was to Wilberforce and Bryce.

    Wilberforce, great comments, BTW. We need more reasonable LGB voices here so please keep em coming!

  30. DB says

    Every successful civil rights law has focused on specific demographic characteristics. Should gay people have blocked the Civil Rights Act of 1965 because it covered ‘race’ but not ‘sexual orientation’? No. Is it acceptable that transgender people blocked the Employment Non-Discrimination Act from passage because it covered ‘sexual orientation’ and not ‘gender identity’? No. Until transgender people apologize for blocking gay civil rights bills, then they should not be allowed to leach off of the work of gay civil rights activists.

  31. Dana says

    @Derrick from Philly aka Kiwi aka Raymond Miller, failed actor from Toronto now living in NYC:

    Go do some googling. You will not find any reference to LGBT in the 80s or any time before that. You will never see or hear any video or audio clip of Harvey Milk referring to “LGBT people.” In fact, you can find clips of him educating the public that gay people should not be equated with crossdressers or men who want to be women. You see, Milk understood that gay people needed to correct stereotypes, not validate them and define ourselves by them.

    “LGBT” was invented in the mid-90s by “queer studies” academics who thought that gay civil rights was too mainstream a goal. It was rarely used outside of queer studies until the late 1990s. The gay orgs didn’t change their names until 2000 or after. Of course there was never any debate or democratic dialogue as to whether this made any sense or what the consequences would be.

  32. Jacob Caria says

    I agree with all the other sockpuppets here. Trans people may have been part of our movement since the beginning, but I don’t see why they have to maintain their own identity while working for our cause. Same thing goes for brown people. I mean, yes, they’re up on stage advocating for marriage equality, while I piss and moan about it in the anonymous comment section of a blog, but what right do they have to take away everything that I have supported other people fighting for? They should just go back into the closet if they want to fight for marriage equality, so that we don’t have to deal with any messy intersectionality.

  33. Derrick from Philly says

    Dana,

    except for Trannsexuals all of the Transgender folks I knew in the 1980s back to the 1960s called themselves “GAY”. They didn’t know the term “Transgender” back then. Many of those with less formal education still refer to themselves as Gay–EXCEPT for those who are Transsexual and intend to blend into the heterosexual world. But as it’s pointed out many Transsexuals love members of the same sex. That makes them Gay.

    See, I’m learnin’

  34. Kyle says

    Trans marriage is a little more complicated than many commenters are assuming. The recognition of trans people’s marriages depends on what stage of their transition they’re at and what their state requires of them to change their gender on various documents as well as their sexual orientation. Gender-neutral marriage eliminates many of the complications. So there is something of a common goal.

    As for the trans flag, would you protest the display of the bisexual flag? After all, bisexual people in straight relationships aren’t really relevant, are they? And a trans flag is not evidence of trans exceptionalism. There exists plenty of symbology specific to gay men and there’s room for plenty more.

  35. Dana says

    @Derrick:

    Some trans people are LGB. Those folks are absolutely part of the LGB community and movement by virtue of the fact that they are gay.

    It is no different than it would be for any other group. There are gay lawyers, gay citizens of China, and gay reality show celebrities. Those folks are all part of the LGB community. But it would be crazy to say that because some of these folks are gay, that therefore all lawyers, all 1.3 billion Chinese citizens and all reality show celebrities are swept into one “community” with LGB people.

    That is the scam that has been pulled with LGBT,and LGBs are finding that there is a price to be paid when you allow your identity to be warped you and you allow yourself to be forcibly merged you with heterosexuals (including homophobic heteros) who are in some way gender nonconforming.

    @Bryce:

    The logical fail is yours. Your argument was that because the H in HRC stands for human, and because trans people are human, then HRC has some sort of obligation to fight for trans rights. If that logic applies, there would be no basis to limit it to trans people; HRC would have to take on every “human rights” cause on the planet.

    Obviously, you concede that HRC focuses on a limited subset of human rights issues. I say that subset should be LGB civil rights, which is the group’s original mission. You say HRC should also spend its limited time and money on a host of issues relating to hetero crossdressing, hetero hermaphrodites and hetero transsexuals. Maybe I am right, maybe you are, but the fact that the H stands for “human” is irrelevant.

    The whole community should have that debate, which we were denied back when LGBT was concocted and imposed on us.

  36. Francis says

    Yes, Derrick, that Francis is a bigot! Not the regular Francis, me, and I live in Richmond BTW.

    Anyone with a shred of common sense can see how trans issues ARE gay issues.

    What is the #1 or #2 reason why gay/bi men are hated? Because we’re considered not real men. Fa**ots. We’re betraying manhood by being gay.

    Trans persons have to go through similar issues. They’re supposedly betraying what they were created to be by having corrective surgery.

    We’re a team, we’re a family, and we’re only as strong as our ENTIRE team is. And our team is not GGGGG. It isn’t. I know some gay men think it’s all about gay, but it’s not.

  37. MateoM says

    The way in which Dana attacked LittleKiwi mirrors the way Ratbastard, infamous Towleroad troll, also attacks LittleKiwi. That is not a coincidence. Dana is simply another alias of Ratbastard (and Rick/Jason). Just ignore Dana. Dana is a troll.

  38. Francis says

    BTW, a lot of these hate posts are by the same poster. “Dana”, who has been trolling around several LGBT blogs and sites, spewing bulls**t.

    Thinking selfishly to assuage the few trolls here, when trans persons are granted equality on an issue, and improvements are made on their front to be who they are and live their lives as they see fit, it helps US as LGB people. That shouldn’t be hard to figure out. ENDA was not destroyed by the trans community, it was LGBTQ organizations that said they flat out would not support a bill with gender identity in it. And then HRC, and Joe Solmonese, ended up killing the bill entirely because they felt the time wasn’t right. Don’t blame trans persons for that, for wanting EQUALITY. How could anyone do that, you’re blaming a group of people, who BTW, most trans persons don’t even identify as straight. So what are you truly fighting against?

    Most LGB people in one way or another have had to deal with the entire you don’t act the way you’re supposed to act according to your gender ordeal. That’s why we need to fight for trans issues. It helps us as gay/bisexual men.

    Stonewall. Trans persons fought hand and hand with us when we needed them. A lot of us are fighting hand in hand with the trans community. The rest of you who aren’t on board don’t seem to know the meaning of community.

  39. redball says

    And of course we transgress those norms by merely being who we are. It’s our IDENTITY that is transgressive. “Gender outlaws,” indeed–to quote Bornstein.

  40. Jeton Ademaj says

    what a cheap joke. the HRC is infamously cowardly and craven, and they love claiming victory on the backs of street-level activists. there is ONE sexual minority community, which i’m happy to call the QUEER community. too bad so many of my fellow queers think they can subdivide themselves…”i’m not one of THOSE ____”

    yes, fools…y’are…Y’ARE! gay man = QUEER. lesbian = QUEER. transgender = QUEER. bi? QUEER. “questioning”? QUEER.

    how laughable that some dont want to “appropriate the oppressor’s language” yet they’re happy to appropriate the oppressor’s VIEWS! lol!

    “undocu-queers” are part of our community, as are trans folk. they were INVITED by HRC and then SILENCED by HRC.

    i’m sorry that these activists actually allowed themselves to be silenced to begin with…but i suppose they didnt want to disrupt the event. of course, the craven and spineless among you all are here claiming they disrupted things anyway!

    message to the oppressed: never surrender power to anyone, including any “ally”.

  41. salmon rios says

    redball,

    just because a bunch of people are against something doesn’t make them a community. you can’t build a community on a negative.

    also, i don’t want gay kids thinking of themselves as gender outlaws. they are just as lawful as anyone else. gay boys are boys and gay girls are girls. if some redneck thinks otherwise, we should educate the redneck not tell the gay kids that the redneck is right. just my opinion

  42. Jeton Ademaj says

    uhm, “Dana”? Harvey Milk was a coward who LOVED encouraging people to come out of the closet NO MATTER WHAT, irrespective of any real harm to themselves…but of course Milk himself was closeted from his own parents.

    eventually the wider Queer community reached a consensus that Queer youth must be taught to NOT put themselves in danger of abuse or homelessness. that happened around 1990 or so…i’m 40 now n recall well the “come out no matter what!” advice to queer youth like myself in the 80’s.

    how many young Queers fell victim to homelessness, AIDS, prostitution and violence because some self-hating wanna-be revolutionaries like Milk were cavalier about putting some at risk and trying to cut others out of the community entirely?!

    enough with the canonization of that Holy Fool. dead chicken hawk…the neocon variety, not the pedokind.

  43. Eric says

    I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that illegal immigration issues had anything to do with same-sex marriage? How dare they keep the demonstrations focused!

  44. David Hearne says

    American admits more immigrants legally than all of received Europe combined. Our immigration system is not broken, 12 million illegal aliens are breaking them.

  45. redball says

    salmon rios, it’s a turn of phrase. but it’s also true–our love is literally OUTLAWED, so to speak–as in discriminated against at the federal level, and in most states.

    we’re a community because we face the same oppression. i see it as a potentially powerful positive thing for us unite on. not sure why how our community is based “on a negative.”

  46. chris255 says

    Throwing immigrants and trans under the bus very deliberately. Just when I thought that the HRC has changed. It’s no enough the damage is done. Go screw thyself.

  47. salmon rios says

    redball,

    it’s a negative because it is based on opposing something. there are lots of groups fighting oppression and that’s great. but you can’t base an identity on what you oppose. LGBs are together as a true community not because we all oppose a law or a politician but because we all have a shared trait which forms a big part of our lives.

    anyway, if discrimination “outlaws” us the answer is to end discrimination not to adopt an identity of outlaw. we have made alot of progress and we will keep on making progress. gay kids dont need to be told that their identity is one of gender outlaw or queer. they should be told the truth, which is that we are winning, that their lives will be the best of any generation of gay people and that they can grow up to be anything they want to be, a full part of their community, not an outlaw or outsider.

  48. FFS says

    Wow. Looks like TR’s resident troll’s DID is really flaring up!

    And as far as political strategy is concerned, would you consider Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. to be one who was well-versed in political strategy, Rick/Dana/DB/Wilberforce?

    Or, did you miss that bit of his about injustice anywhere being injustice everywhere?

    I am a gay, Caucasian, cis-gendered American male, but I have more fight in me than just what it takes to fight for gay issues. The injustices heaped upon women, trans* individuals, undocumented immigrants and people of all ethnicities will face opposition from me.

    Community means something more to me than just “people like myself.”

  49. Peanut says

    I’m sadden to see the ignorance that exists within our community which has been highlighted in the comment section of this story. The freedom to marriage is ABSOLUTELY a Trans and Immigrant issue. Many Trans people are still identified by their biological sex and DOMA prevents Immigrants from citizenship. As someone who has actually worked on marriage equality, please educate yourself on these issues before you spout off about them ‘hijacking’ the marriage movement. HRC, obviously the most well known LGBT organization, needs to systematically improve on Trans and Immigrant issues but as do most LGBT organizations in this town. We as a community need to work on being more inclusive, not just HRC.

  50. says

    It’s truly sickening that so may gay men would gleefully accept equal rights at the expense of the transgender community.

    HRC has a long history of trying to exclude trans people from the march towards equality. They were ready to take trans people out of the ENDA bill to ensure it passed Congress. Unforgivable.

    This latest stunt is not surprising; HRC only truly cares about the white gay men that funds it. That’s hard to write, and hard to say, but it’s the truth.

  51. Francis says

    Most of the negative comments are made by one or two posters. It’s sad that trolls are allowed to destroy the quality of comments here so often.

  52. redball says

    salmon rios,

    you don’t get queer studies. not my fault. and i’m not sure why you’re interested in teaching “gay kids” that they are gender outlaws. that wasn’t even remotely my point.

  53. Quinn says

    A few things i noticed: 1) Trans kept ENDA from passing – the reality is, the law would not have passed and GWB stated he would have vetoed it if it had. ANY person with an ounce of political savvy would make that the time to press HARD for the whole thing. Get people educated and the ball rolling on full employment protections. (2) Trans people are able to marry – Not in all states and not for all trans people. The patchwork is actually more complicated than the current state of SSM. It varies on who they marry, in what state, and if they move does the new state recognize either the marriage or the gender change. In short, any marriage a trans person has could be considered SSM. (3) Gay men are some self-centered jerks. And I say this as a gay man. Seriously, you guys stink on ice.

  54. Orion says

    I think a few people have this wrong. The main focus for trans-people is not marriage equality… so if this was an event (sorry I’m ignorant on the context) then okay trans-related topics weren’t really needed there.

    The main focus for trans-people is support. They want to be taken seriously and given the resources they need to be themselves. They want to not be discriminated against in the work place and not be at risk at losing their job just because they’re trans.
    People wonder why so many trans-folk are sex workers; it’s because it’s so damn hard to get a job if you’re trans and can be so vulnerable in the workplace.

    Some argue that trans-people shouldn’t be in the LGBT community, well in my opinion as a gay teen I strongly think they should. We all want equality and we all want to end ignorance and discrimination against us. How do we get it? We work together in harmony or no one will take us seriously; because if we reject each other then they will reject us all.

    Thank you for reading.

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