1. Michael says

    Sorry but this is wrong with our country. If you commit a crime or are too lazy to get a job you shouldn’t be getting surgeries or buying steak, cookies and ice cream off of the backs of hard working citizens. There have been too many times after paying my sky high rent in nyc I am in line buying pb&j while the person ahead of me is buying a t-bone steak with their food stamp card. God knows I can’t afford the $400 a month insurance premium Manning is getting for free now. My guess is he wouldn’t have been able to afford it before his jail term.

  2. renovato says

    Michael 12-15 $ a month for medical treatment (hormone therapy) Is too much for a Prison to pay for necessary treatment, really, so If some-one had HIV and were in prison you would withhold their anti-viral therapy! Really?
    That costs significantly more $8-12 000 per year!

  3. James says

    This is so ridiculous, if you want to take hormones and “become a woman” then wait till you get out of prison and then do it. This is not a life or death situation. The tax payers who are LAW ABIDING citizens shouldn’t have to foot the bill for any joe shmoe who wants to turn into lisa loo especially if they’re an inmate.

  4. Michael says

    no one in the military receives hormone therapy. If honorable people aren’t getting it, then Manning shouldn’t. He shouldn’t be given everything he wants because some people view him favorably

  5. johnny says

    “And this condition from a medical and scientific perspective is no different from any other medical condition that requires treatment.”

    I totally disagree with this statement. Gender identity issues are not life-threatening in any way. If they were, this person would have not been taken into the military in the first place. Other than suicide, I can’t see why he shouldn’t have to serve the sentence as a man and simply wait to be a woman when he’s released. It will probably happen in 10 years anyway with good behavior. In any event, the military is not going to pay for it, so it’s a non-issue.

  6. Ryan says

    Changing your gender is not a medical necessity. Many trans people choose to not even have any operation at all, and just merely live as the other gender. Manning should not be allowed elective surgery when she is a criminal.

  7. says

    Wow, the comments here are just awful. Gender dysphoria can be life-threatening; if you had all paid attention to the video, you would have heard Lauren say that 41% of transgender people have attempted suicide in the United States.

  8. says

    thankfully, more intelligent people understand exactly what Zinnia is talking about, and how right she is.

    the fact that gender-identity is indeed a massive part of who you are and the issues related to it are indeed vital to your wellbeing, is lost on those who, even in 2013, refuse to do what responsible adults are supposed to do and educate themselves on the issues related to being transgendered.

    these comments reek of the pathetic gay males who don’t know transpeople, have not spoken with transpeople, and haven’t the integrity to put themselves in the shoes of another.

    learn something.

    in places where facts and study trump uneducated opinions, these issues are being understood. Ontario gets it.

    as for the gay men who choose to continue to refuse to learn anything about what transgendered people go through – y’all deserve every ounce of the anti-gay discrimination and prejudice you’re going to continue receiving in life.

  9. Ryan says

    Wow, DAYVG. That’s an incredible statement. That’s right up there with the guy who kills his parents and asks the judge for leniency because he’s an orphan.
    If Manning had already begun hormone treatment, then maintaining it would be necessary for her health. But she hasn’t. She never felt the need to do so in all the years she was free (before she betrayed her country). Too late now. If surgery were actually a medical necessity for trans people, then they all would do it, though many choose not to.

  10. Blake says

    This is an interesting case of transgendered activists wanting to have it both ways (heh). Here, this person is making the case that transgenderism and “gender dysphoria” are MEDICAL DISORDERS requiring treatment by doctors, and are calling the withholding of such treatment a violation of medical rights. Gender dysphoria, incidentally, was formerly known as “gender identity disorder” before activists recently succeeded in pressuring the APA to change the name to ‘normalize and reduce the medicalization of the condition”.

    Many other trans activists however, particularly of the ultraleftist feminist variety, claim that transgenderism and “genderfluidity” are not medical conditions at all and that the medicalization of the condition only exists because we live in a “patriarchial, hegemonic cissexist, opressive-genderbinary, transphobic, (blah blah blah blah, etc.)”. Well, which is it then?

    This and many other issues continue to convince me that trans activism has very little in common with the expansion of gay rights, and their (myriad) issues, both ex- and internal) are frankly not of direct concern to me as a gay man. I don’t necessarily disagree with the particular rights they’re pushing for, but they have virtually nothing to do with me or rights for my fellow gay men.

  11. says

    Ryan apparently lives in a world where transgendered people are free to live without discrimination on a daily basis that affects work, livelihood, personal safety, and apparently it’s also a world where gender-reassignment surgeries are so affordable that they can all pay for them.

    what world do you live in , Ryan? clearly it can’t be the “healthcare for profit” united states of america.

    plz share.

  12. says

    anti-trans gay men are pathetic cowards.

    and in what alternate dimension, Ryan, are transgendered people able to afford the cost of gender-reassignment surgeries?

    do you live in a world where transgendered people are not discriminated against in life, in work, in society, and are all able to rake in the money needed for surgery in Healthcare For Profit America?

    trust any story about our Trans brothers and sisters to inspire pathetic comments from the most useless and cowardly males in our community.

  13. Name: says

    As much as I believe manning should be in jail, I do believe its the responsibility of the those incarcerating manning to pay for ANY medical condition.

  14. Homo Genius says

    Well post this is good example why the Trans people shouldn’t depend on the gays to deal with their movement. Its something completely different and we don’t have the issues and don’t really get them.

    Isnt he still a “woman” without hormones and elaborate surgeries.

    Maybe I am a bit too cynical but could the timing of the revelation be a ploy to get moved to a woman’s prison. Not saying he isn’t Trans but it could have come up anytime before the actual sentencing

  15. PeteP says

    Dear Chelsea/Bradley: Just go away already. You have already done enough damage to the gay community and the country. We will be just fine without you in the news on a daily basis.

  16. TheDrDonna says

    I like how nobody actually is able to refute her logic.
    1. Transitioning, when prescribed by an attending physician/psychologist, is the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, as recognized by the APA, the AMA, the WPATH, and other major medical organizations.
    2. Under the 8th amendment, as affirmed by the Supreme Court, the prison system is required to provide medically necessary treatment to prisoners.
    3. Just because one sector of society still has discrimination is not a reason to be a proponent of discrimination in another venue. Just because our crappy healthcare system is still biased against trans people doesn’t mean we must pursue bias against trans people in prison.

    Honestly, this is completely aside from Chelsea Manning herself. Whether you support her or not, being in favor of denying medically necessary treatment to prisoners is wrong and indefensible.

  17. Duke says

    Blah, blah blah, “law abiding citizens” shouldn’t be paying for the medical care of people in prison, blah, blah, blah…

    Well, dickwads, if we didn’t lead the world in percentage of population in prison, we wouldn’t be having this discussion now, would we ?

    I have to laugh, we live in a country rife with political and socio-economic corruption that’s so efficiently concealed and made palatable by a complacent and compliant media that most of us don’t even see the sheer idiocy in our own outrage.

    Look, the prison-industrial-union complex of losers that have an interest in putting as many people in prison for as long as possible just THRIVES on this kind of stuff, so take it up with them, and stop coming off as delusional pseudo-patriotic retards, MMM KAYE ?

  18. Ryan says

    And Little Kiwi apparently lives in a world where no trans people openly say they have no desire for gender reassignment surgery. Maybe you should try talking to a trans person every once in a while. I know a couple that have never had any surgery, entirely by choice.

  19. Duke says

    I love how nobody is outraged that we lead the world in percentage of citizenry in our prisons, or that the entire prison-industrial-union system has an aggressive political interest to put as many people IN prison as possible, corrupting the process every step of the way, and militarizing the entire nation, and how our complacent media helps make the whole thing palatable.

    Yeah, you have to PAY for medical treatment of people in prison. Who knew ? I guess we should just put people in there and let them die. But that wouldn’t make a LOT of greasy, otherwise unemployable people a living off the backs of everyone else, now would it ?

    The hypocrisy and idiocy is palpable here, as usual.

    If you don’t want to pay for people’s medical care in prison, STOP PUTTING SO MANY PEOPLE IN PRISON !

    Manning isn’t a threat to anybody, his life is thoroughly trashed now, and it serves no purpose to keep him in prison. But hey, if you’re going to keep him in prison and support the bogus charges, you should stfu about how much it costs, and just EAT ME.

  20. gr8guya says

    While I am sympathetic to Manning’s arguments, we are talking about someone’s emotional state. Will Manning be happy or miserable, not will Manning live or die?

    He has lived this many years as a man, with no active medical care to change that. He should maintain his current status until his release. After that, it’s her business to do as she wishes.

  21. TomNYC says

    More lies from trans activists. Trans activists are amoral. They will say anything to get what they want and what they want is almost always to have someone else pay for their many mental and emotional issues.

    Sex change surgery is a necessity, but somehow Manning was able to go for years without even mentioning it. Most transsexuals never get this surgery and those who do may get it in their 30s, 40s, or 50s. Somehow all these people are able to get along without it or are able to get along for decades without it. Manning can serve “her” time and get the surgery at her own expense in 35 years.

  22. Dana says


    1. Source please? You are always demanding sources, now provide some. Dysphorias can be treated in many ways, including therapy to accept the unwanted condition and/or medication.

    2. The state is not obligated to treat every condition under the 8th Amendment. There are many conditions which are treatable, but which the state need not treat because they are not serious and do not pose a risk of serious harm. A prisoner might like to get surgery to correct a longstanding limp, and that surgery might be medically necessary to correct that limp, but he won’t get it. The limp might be uncomfortable and might cause distress, but that is not the state’s problem and the prisoner has no claim under the 8th Amendment. Ditto for would-be shemales seeking taxpayer funded genital mutilation surgery.

    3. Circular reasoning. You haven’t shown that refusing to cover genital mutilation surgery is discrimination.

    Here’s hoping that “Chelsea” pursues this all the way the US Supreme Court. This would be the perfect case for SCOTUS to swat this down.

  23. bructer says

    Complicated issue, but it is truly Mannings to deal with. He should be a model prisoner and hopefully in 8 yrs he will get out and be free to be whomever he wants to be. This was not a condition he was addressing prior to his arrest, so it can wait till he is released. Or if it was that important it would have taken priority or his release on confidential info, and he would not have been arrest in the first place. Also enough of his problem the country has million of other issues to deal with that effect millions of people so lets solve those. So Bradley priorities first. I wish him the best.

  24. says

    TOMMYNYC, Manning did not “go for years” without mentioning it. In fact, she clearly mentioned the fact that she was transgender, or was trying to work out her gender identity, in the chat logs that were released by the army. Moreover, her superiors in the army were aware of the fact she was struggling with her identity because she sent an e-mail (the black and white photograph of her in a blonde wig that is being circulated now was originally attached to that e-mail). Seriously, just read about this before forming an opinion.

    Chelsea Manning is no traitor! She revealed to the world the extent of malpractice and possible war crimes being undertaken in Iraq in the name of American citizens. She’s a hero.

  25. Thedrdonna says

    @Dana: despite your obvious hatred for trans people, I’m gonna give you some info:
    That’s a list of a lot of different orgs that agree that transitioning is medically sound and beneficial for treating GID.

    The interpretations thus far of the 8th Amendment state that treatment is allowed where it “has been diagnosed by a physician as mandating treatment”.

    3. See above.

  26. JohnAGJ says

    Well Little Kiwi you are free to help raise the money to pay for Manning’s elective surgery and hormonal treatment if you like. I could care less what you call us or think of us. If you’re demanding I pay help pay for something without my input, well lets just say that makes you someone far worse in my eyes than whatever you may think of me. In short, you can take your self-righteous and faux morally superior attitude and F off. As long as the requested treatment is medically unnecessary, and nothing said here indicates it really and truly is, than I’m not interested in making the taxpayers foot the bill. If Manning or someone else wishes to pay for it, ok I’ll go along with that but that’s it.

  27. will says

    You’re a woman trapped in a man’s body and this is an “untreated medical condition” while you’re serving federal time? I respect Bradley/Chelsea, but let him remain a man while he’s in a male prison. And how tedious it is having dull, pedestrian PC-correct posters humorlessly lecturing, lecturing, lecturing us on transgender issues. Lighten up, please.

  28. andrew says

    Under no circumstances should taxpayer money be used for hormone therapy or sexual reassignment surgery. In 8 yrs or so, when he has paid his debt to society, he can get a job, write a book or do whatever to earn money to pay for those procedures. I do hope that after his prison term, he has a good life.

  29. TomNYC says


    “She” made no attempt in 25 years to get such surgery. Not prior to joining the Army. Not while in the Army. Not in the 3 years in detention. Only now that the trial is over does it suddenly become “necessary” to get this expensive surgery at taxpayer expense. Sorry. No deal.

  30. Dana says


    Gee it took only 1 comment exchange for you to retreat from “medically necessary” to “medically sound and beneficial.” Shows what a transparent liar you are. Why do trans activists lie so frequently? Is it part of your mental disease or is it just a lack of morals?

    The surgery might be medically sound and beneficial. That doesn’t make it necessary. That doesn’t mean that the taxpayer has to provide it.

    If there were an actual finding that not getting the surgery would result in suicide and that no other treatment option would work and if that finding were reviewed and affirmed by a review panel, then “Chelsea” might have a case. But that is very different than asserting that trans criminals are entitled to surgery because they have a dysphoria and want surgery.

  31. Thedrdonna says

    @Dana, I know you’re blinded by your hatred for trans people, but please do try to look at what I’ve posted before simply latching on to a single phrase and trying to build a case around it. It is medically necessary. Most of the sources cited in the link I provided describe it as such. They also describe it as “not cosmetic” and “not elective.”

  32. crazycorgi says

    If a prison inmate has kidney failure, or HIV, or any other LIFE THREATENING illness, then denying them medical treatment would be unheard of. However, Bradley Manning wanting to become a woman is not LIFE THREATENING. If he needs therapy then there are prison psychologists, however HRT and sex reassignment surgery is not something taxpayers should have to pay for. If he wants to be a woman then it should be up to him to pay for it when he gets out.

  33. Thomas Cardellino says

    Imagine that, the very same US Government Department that brought us Abu Ghraib, that imprisoned Private Chelsea Manning in naked humiliation for months on end, that kept the yet uncharged American Army Private in solitary confinement for years, imagine these kind souls denying “medically necessary care” to an imprisoned American Citizen on US Soil! What will we have next? Unanswerable war crimes of murdering American Citizens on foreign soil absent any trace of due process, while also murdering vast uncountable numbers of innocent civilians and first responders? Had Private Manning never blown the whistle on it, following his empathetic conscience, the DOD and CIA would never have had to divulge the minute degree of detail about murderous drone strikes they now incompletely, misleadingly and grudgingly reveal.

    Yet, even on this supposed LGBTI friendly website, we hear the whining of the “haves” about how medically necessary healthcare should be denied to an American sentenced to 30 years of loss of personal liberty because, for example, one New York City renter sees Food Stamp abuse all around his self-sacrificing beset upon person in the “hood.”

    What’s it like to be a trans person before gender reassignment? I can’t say exactly from my own life experience as a gay man, but I do recall how uncomfortable I felt so very often before I came out. To me, it seems, if you take just your one most humiliating experience you as an LGB person had to endure before coming out, my guess is that feeling trapped inside a body that is not your heart and mind’s gender must be a million times worse, not just once but each and every day. For any member of the still-oppressed worldwide LGBTI population, to bad mouth out of sheer ignorance and lack of empathy any other oppressed minority than your own Private Idaho is unforgivable, ugly and unworthy of any oppressed person whose oppression is based on immutable traits. Anti-trans lesbians, bisexuals and gays (I can’t even understand why I have to state this on this “homosexual tendencies” website!) should have their heads examined, seriously, in a good productive way. Perhaps then their internalized self-loathing won’t be hurtfully transferred upon other folks just trying to live the best lives that they can. Isn’t that fundamental to being an American?

  34. Holly says

    As a point of clarification, the military does provide transgender medical care, but only to veterans through the VA. It’s not provided to anyone actively serving, in part because gender dysphoria is categorized as a condition incompatible with active duty. Still, there are more and more reports in the press this week from anonymous sources that the military knows about large numbers of transgender people (in the thousands, since we’re not talking about a huge population overall) in the military who are being quietly accepted as long as they do their jobs well.

  35. Gigi says

    So much for the “community” that ww allegedly belong to. Most of the comments here today make my heart hurt. We’re our worst enemy.
    Who needs Tony Perkins or the Westboro Baptist Church when we us each other?

  36. jexer says

    I don’t care about who pays for it, I just think that felons have lost their freedom to choose to START transitioning while they’re serving time. If they were transitioning before incarceration, prisons should be required to respect and facilitate the process.

    The decision to start transitioning is a serious one. I have difficulty with calling it a medical necessity when it’s the patient saying they need it, and not a doctor saying that the patient >needs< it.

  37. Dana says


    I realize that artificial hormone injections might have blunted your reasoning skills, but try to follow along:

    Just because a procedure is “not cosmetic” or “not elective” does not mean that it is “medically necessary.” There are many procedures that are not cosmetic but also are not medically necessary. I gave you an example of a prisoner who suffers from a chronic limp. Another example might be allergies which cause discomfort, but post no serious risk of death or injury. Another example might be a deviated septum. All real medical conditions for which treatment would not be cosmetic. But it wouldn’t be medically necessary either and a prisoner would have no right to demand that the taxpayer provide it.

    Here’s a thought: tell your fellow transwomen to stop committing crimes, to stay out of prison, and to start looking for jobs. Then, they can use their own money that they earn from their salaries to fund their genital mutilation surgeries. K? Let me know how that goes over with the “trans community.”

  38. Thedrdonna says

    @Dana: in your haste to spew epiphets and denigrate an oppressed minority, did you again fail to read my comment? Almost all of the organizations in that link, including the APA and the AMA and the WPATH, said that those treatments are medically necessary.

  39. Hagatha says

    It’s interesting that on another day some self-identified transperson will tell us that the military should have to accept tgirls for enlistment, and today these people have a medical condition which requires not only acute care but medical maintenance for a chronic condition… and that the medical necessity is born of statistics about how many tgirls have tried to commit suicide when the rainbow was not enuf.

    Spare me. You’re a drag queen, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with the fact that you believe that you are a member of the female sex when you are in every medical sense male. So what you like swishing, shopping, and wearing Oleg Casini seamed stockings- you are a man who likes all of those things.

  40. Knock says

    It’s the equivalent of elective surgery. Do female inmates get free breast implants and lip injections? Do male inmates get hair transplants and eye tucks?

    It isn’t medically necessary. If Manning could get by without estrogen for all these years, s/he can get by without it for the duration of the sentence.

  41. Jerry says

    Im a flaming liberal and Im against paying for criminals to have sex changes. I know that trans activists label anyone who disagrees as an anti-trans, but Im not. Im just not paying for prisoners hormones. That’s sill.

  42. ClemInTX says

    Hagatha makes a good point. Trans activists insist that trans people are qualified to serve in the military and they try to compare their situation to the old ban on LGB soldiers. But at the same time they declare that they have a serious medical condition that requires specialized intervention, hormone injections and surgical procedures. The military is under no obligation to accept individuals who require medical intervention and supervision. So hopefully, the Manning case and all the claims about how the surgery is medically necessary will be cited by the Pentagon every time trans activists push to repeal prohibitions on trans servicemembers.

  43. Rich says

    It really comes down to what are the obligations of the government towards its prisoners. We can all express our opinions, but in the end, it is up to the courts to decide what qualifies as “cruel and unusual”.

    Pvt. Manning conceded to the judge the obligation to pay a penalty for Pvt. Manning’s actions. That penalty may include having to inhabit a body with gender characteristics that Pvt. Manning finds repugnant while serving the prison term that the judge meted out. If Manning wishes to litigate that condition of imprisonment, let the courts hear it.

  44. johnny says

    To Ms. Kiwi and other trans-sympathizers:

    Simply stating that one does not believe it’s the government’s responsibility to pay for Manning’s surgeries and treatments does not mean one is “anti-trans”. Also stating that the treatment is not 100% necessary because it’s truly not a LIFE-THREATENING situation is also not “anti-trans”.

    I’m fine with the T on LGBT, but I’m not going to give them whatever they want every time they ask for it because otherwise I’ll be labeled “anti-trans” or a “hater”. They’re trans, not special snow flakes.

    Thanks for reading.

    (takes a bow).

    -much love, Johnny

  45. JohnAGJ says

    Interesting how “hate” is used by you as an attack in precisely the same manner in which you accuse us. You act like children, throwing a tantrum because not everyone agrees with you all te time or refuses to be bullied into paying for something you have no right whatsoever to demand of us. Since that is what you call “hate”, which it clearly is whether you are mature in mind enough to realize or not, I can live with it. Call us whatever name you wish if you like but understand this: if you cannot even convince those you wish to ally yourselves with without behaving like an azz and employing bullying tactics, you’ll do far worse with everyone else. A puece of advice: Ratcheting up the noxious rhetoric won’t get you far either, but I doubt you’ll listen.

  46. ratbastard says

    Oh, just dope him up on SSRIs and anti-anxiety meds. He’ll be zombiefied, lose any sex drive he has, get fat with sagging man t*ts, big a**, belly, hips. He’ll be fine. Sarcasm off.

    I don’t buy for a minute he’ll be OK once he gets hormone therapy. I think Bradley has serious mental health issues in addition to his gender identity issue. Unfortunately for him, he has to abide by the regulations in place for a military prison. I don’t care if he gets hormone treatment, as long as it’s not super expensive and being paid for by the government [taxpayers]. But I doubt they’ll go for it. Now if he was in Massachusetts state prison, that’s a different story.

  47. AdamK says

    I am horrified at the negative attitude toward trans people on a gay website. You people have learned nothing.

    You need to LISTEN to trans people, empathize, and shut your damn mouths until you have understood.

    You need to pay attention when medical, psychological, and psychiatric associations explain what is and is not medical necessity.

    And you need to get over the idea that punishment for crimes should include cruelty and withholding medical care.

  48. Koskalaka Maricón says

    Perhaps my reading of this post is skewed and mistaken, but I do find it tenuous and thready to rationalize the medical necessity of hormone therapy treatment based upon a pathological condition; it’s only pathological if transgendered folk, like Chelsea, are denied this therapy, and more. Otherwise, it gives the ignorant and transphobic unwarranted and dubious grounds for maintaining their ignorance, fear and hatred of what they do not understand (willfully or not).

  49. Dana says


    “I’m fine with the T on LGBT, but I’m not going to give them whatever they want every time they ask for it”

    Unfortunately, Johnny, the whole point of inventing LGBT was to make it impossible for LGBs to ever say no. To make it impossible for LGBs to even think about whether any particular trans activist demand makes sense and to think about whether it makes sense for LGBs to spend limited energy and resources on such demands.

    Prior to the invention of LGBT, LGBs were allies with Ts. We could fight together on certain issues, like hate crimes and bullying, when it made sense to do so. But we kept our own identity as gay people. We always got the final say as to what was in our best interests.

    But that wasn’t enough for the trans activists. They wanted to be able to demand things, not ask for them. They needed a larger group to do their work for them, even while they provided nothing in return. Thus, LGBT was born. If you accept LGBT, you are inevitably accepting a situation where gay and lesbian people – who have plenty of their own issues and goals to deal with – are commanded to take up the banner of taxpayer funded hormone treatments for felons.

  50. Fiveht says

    I’m much more disturbed by the anti-trans sentiment.

    We could discuss the issue of treating gender dysphoria in prison, which I can recognize is a complicated issue (how far does the responsibility of the state go? how much should the government pay? who’s eligible? etc)… but it is impossible to discuss it with people that are so obviously anti-trans, or at best completely unempathetic to any other oppressed group that is not their own.

  51. Knock says

    It’s impossible to discuss anything with someone who declares you “anti-trans” or a “hater” or deserving of discrimination for not agreeing with the prescribed LGBTQQ2SAetc position.

    If we aren’t free to have individual opinions, we aren’t free to have individual identities. “No freedom until we’re equal” does not mean “no freedom until we’re identical”.

  52. Fiveht says

    You are free to have different opinions. But not all opinions are equal and more than a few here /are/ anti-trans. Come one, using the term “genital mutilation”? It’s like out of the homophobe playbook.

    If you’re willing to have a real discussion, out of a place of respect, it’s all cool. Some commenters here are not starting from that place and cloak their bigotry in ‘opinion’. Where have we heard that before? Yeah, those of us who are LGBs are not the same as the Ts. Different issues, different challenges, etc… but we should have a greater ability to empathize with them more, not less, since we receive similar vitriol from those who hate us.

    (And we should also be able to empathize more with victims of racism, sexism, etc…)

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