Comments

  1. disgusted American says

    ..whats the big deal…..so what, they wannna come in…why cant they…….we as gay people need to stick together…..whats the real fear of them bein there?

  2. werk says

    I LOVE that he apparently said “gender appearance” – that itself will open up a brilliant and hopefully enlightening discussion about gender-identity, gender-expression, and how both or either are perceived.

  3. Francis #1 says

    Surprising considering most gay bars tend to in fact play up the drag and the fabulous rather than actively seek to shy away from it, especially in such a discriminatory manner. Checking this bar’s FB page, seems it’s a sporty bear-oriented bar and based on what these boycotters are saying, the bar is intentionally trying to play up being a butch bar at the expense of anything, everything they see as feminine. They’re stupid for discriminating against their own like this. It’s things like this that REALLY rubs me the wrong way when it comes to the hyper-masculine subset of gay men.

  4. DrKRL says

    Lots of bars in Europe have a strict dress code. Why would you want to go into a leather bar in drag? Nobody there would appreciate you like they would if you went to a more open bar. The leather/bear scene is just as cliqueish as any other group.

  5. Chris says

    There’s two sides to every story, this club/bar is trying to keep a specific clientele, and bouncers have been able to pick and choose who to let into a club forever. I never see anyone protesting outside a club because they were denied entry because they were too old, fat, skinny, poor, short, tall, unattractive, unknown or whatever else.
    Once upon a time, people went to bars that catered to their specific crowd. I have no problem with leather bars that want to keep a specific masculine dress code, just like I don’t have a problem with restaurants that require ties, or nightclubs that don’t allow sneakers or hats. There’s no difference. It’s not transphobia it’s a marketing plan. There are drag bars in New York, I never see leather daddies protesting demanding to be admitted,

  6. Jeff says

    I don’t know a lot of trans people but I know a few and damn they are a lot of fun. I’d want them in my bar any day. Stop with the preconceived notions of who people are and accept them as they arrive on your door step and you might find a really amazing gift.

  7. Will says

    I don’t get why people discriminate against trans people. I especially can’t wrap my mind around how a gay person or any other minority could discriminate against someone else for being a certain way, it’s kind of like how when blak people discriminate against gays and when we compare ourselves to the civil rights movement. It just makes no sense to me.

  8. Rion says

    @Chris_ In some ways I get your point, you should be able to control your clientele but if this was a situation of a straight restaurant not allowing Gay people because they are “a Family” restaurant would that be acceptable. I love this site but sometime I wish there was a true forum to have these discussions.

  9. Daniel says

    @Chris: It might not be that cut and dry. A bar is a place of public accommodation. If it’s in in a jurisdiction with laws against discrimination based on gender identity then the question becomes whether it’s a valid ID policy or not.

  10. Daniel says

    @Will: I’ve known a handful of people who are racial minorities who really bristle at the idea of gay civil rights. They’re all very orthodox in their religious life and believe–no kidding–that being gay is a lifestyle choice. Because race is genetic it’s easy for them to draw a distinction. Funny thing is that they’re also firmly against religious discrimination, even though religion is clearly a lifestyle choice. They can’t see how internally inconsistent they are.

  11. Rafael says

    I agree with JMC. Trans people shouldn’t be targeted. But guys in drag are just out to make a scene. Have a little common sense before you stage a protest.

  12. Homo Genius says

    This was a very common policy at the gay bars in my city at least thru the 80s. LOl. My friend got turned away one nite but it was funny because he wasn’t actually in drag or cross dressing..lol… just his normal flambouyant attire. But more to the point, this place hosted the Drag show. They had nothing against drag queens or femmes, it was just their door policy

    But taking “discrimination” out of the equation, there are actual legal reasons a bar might do this, such as having to make sure minors aren’t at the bar. Or then there is crime. Many cities have ordinances about wearing masks.

  13. David says

    If it’s any consolation to the Drag & Trans community, I think the staff at this establishment (with a few exceptions) is generally rude and unfriendly to almost everyone. It’s like trying to enjoy your self at a place run by a bunch of moonlighting self-important TSA agents.

  14. Eric8 says

    I do believe it is a leather/western bar – can the trans people at least have the common decency to let us have our own bars? they have already forced their way into every organization and taken over.

  15. Sam says

    Yeah it kind of sucks but any sensible bar would say that if your ID picture doesn’t match your physical appearance, you aren’t getting in the bar. Reckon this is mostly for underage people using fake IDs but I guess it can be turned against drag and transgendered people too.

  16. Rion says

    @Sam_I get what you’re saying but there’s a difference from trying to sneak in with my Older brother’s ID and me dressed in drag. I change my look all the time, long hair, short hair, etc and I’ve never been questioned.

  17. DB says

    Every bar has an a right to set a dress code for its patrons. Of course a bar, especially a male-oriented bar, can ban men wearing drag or other ridiculous outfits.

  18. UFFDA says

    Don’t go to bars. Lots of gay people don’t, wouldn’t think of it. I live with two young gay men and their visiting friends, they never go to gay bars and think that “the gay community” sucks. They’re way outside the box. It’s interesting and more than a little amusing considering how highly the ‘gay community” thinks of itself. These are highly intelligent young men who do realize that an earlier generation gave them the freedoms and acceptance they experience, still it’s no go in “the scene” for them, one which they find tedious, precious and unnecessary in their own lives.

  19. Tatts says

    There’s no point in IDs if they don’t look like you. The problem was the photo not looking like the person presenting it. Simple solution–get a proper ID that represents you.

    And as someone who prefers the company of other leather men, I’m sick of drag queens (and women and straight men and bachelorette parties) parading through the leather bar like we’re some kind of freak show for their amusement. They think they’re being hip and cool by hanging with the leather guys. But they’re not.

    If you don’t fit in with the crowd at that bar, have the decency to go some place where you will fit in, and come back to this one at a better time in more appropriate attire.

    There’s nothing wrong with people wanting a place of their own. We don’t get it during most of the work week; at least give us our own time on the weekends.

  20. Knock says

    Why is it ok to hate on all signs of masculinity, or individual identity related to it, but criticising the opposite is unforgivable? Why do effeminate gays and transsexuals have the right to dictate behaviour and eradicate anything that doesn’t revolve around them?

  21. Dennis says

    Good for the Wrangler! Stand firm guys and don’t back down. The vast majority of gay people don’t crossdress and have had it with the ongoing costume show. It was tedious and repetitive decades ago. Today, it is just embarrassing. This also shows how ridiculous it is to elevate crossdressing to a civil right.

    Stand firm Wrangler and let them take their minstrel act somewhere else.

  22. jay says

    The dude with the beard says he is a bear, a drag queen. No wonder he is having issues with a well defined establishment. I applaud the Wrangler for not bowing down to this nonsense.

  23. Cory says

    Good on The Wrangler. This is seriously ridiculous. This type of “gay lifestyle” is going the way of the dinosaur and as a 23 year old gay MAN who is proudly masculine and not desperately trying to appear, either through mannerism or dress code, as a woman, I couldn’t be happier.

  24. Francis #1 says

    People who feel the need to state how masculine they are, are not really masculine.

    Some of you making the “let us have our own bar” argument sound like straight people, discriminating against gay folk. And how most straight bars tend to be spaces that wouldn’t make most gay people comfortable, often intentionally. Yet you’re perfectly willing to do the very same thing against basically everyone in the community that isn’t a gay/bi, (hyper)masculine, man. What’s even more funny is, most of you complaining couldn’t be further from a truly masculine guy, because men who are truly secure in their manhood aren’t phased by the femininity of others, others’ differences in general. Our community is about diversity at the end of the day yet some of you are embarrassed and hostile against that. Pathetic.

    Of course, a lot of these responses are from the same troll which is obvious, but it needed to be said.

  25. FFS says

    Bars in NYC, LA and SoFlo can afford to “create a specific atmosphere.”

    Gay bars in the Midwest should take every dollar they can get and thank their lucky stars for getting them. Discrimination aside, this is just dumb business.

  26. Bastian says

    Could it possibly be that maybe they just don’t like you or your attitude? Is there systematic evidence of anyone else being turned away unfairly? Way to turn your personal rejection into a “community issue”.

  27. Mike in the Tundra says

    “Gay bars in the Midwest should take every dollar they can get and thank their lucky stars for getting them.”

    I really suggest that you visit Chicago or Minneapolis, then buy a clue. That aside, perhaps we’re a little more accepting out here in the boondocks. I remember a New Year’s Eve when I was in my leathers and had a trans woman sitting in my lap, because the place was so crowded. She kept me entertained the whole night, and my husband was fine with it.

    It can be a little sad sometimes. One evening, I could not take my eyes off a beautiful young man. It was quite upsetting, when I discovered he was a drag king.

    Folks, you only have one life. Don’t put up barriers to it. UFFDA, how are those intelligent young men finding other intelligent young man? They cannot depend on accidental meetings. I suspect they spend a good deal of time on the internet.

  28. Chaz says

    Fine. Let them have their scene and its weird throwback pseudo-male uniform. I hope all this fetish crap dies out soon. My father has a big hairy belly, arms like tree-trunks and a beard like Odin but, gay or straight, if I saw him in this get-up and not on his bike, I’d die of shame.

  29. jimbryant says

    While it’s true that bars have the right to insist on a standard of attire, have any of you stopped to think of this double standard: why are women allowed to enter bars while wearing pants but men cannot enter wearing dresses?

    Moreover, why can a woman walk down the street wearing pants but men get stared at whenever they wear dresses?

    Here’s the answer: liberalism has created a pro-female political correctness which allows women to get away with things that men – including gay men – can’t. Welcome to pro-female PC and its anti-male characteristics!!!!

  30. says

    I know nothing of this specific bar, and Im not Trans, just gay. I have seen a lot of transphobia in the gay community but I think it is more accurately homophobia the gays themselves have, fear of others judging them as seeming too gay, hence the reason I stay away from all ultra-masculine gay or straight sports bars or events. Chances are, most that attend are big bottoms and even give dirty looks to anyone that could not pass as straight anyways, so I never have found them friendly or enjoyable. I grew up in a small town and one gay bar my friends and I found to sneak into, when the ID folks were in a good mood. There were all kinds of folks; styles, colors, etc. It would be a shame if the one gay bar in a town only wanted certain “types” there. People have to remember, it wasn’t the quiet gays who made Stonewall happen, no social movement is started my those that “fit in”. So regardless of someone’s acceptance of drag queens or Trans people, (btw: does “trans” include woman in pants like it was years ago?, things do change) they should not be turned away. It’s not like there is a Trans bar in every city. If I had to choose between a gay bar full of Trans, Heteros, Fag Hags, Fags, Queens, etc. or one that had all the same type of people, I would pick the more “colorful” group. If I want a quiet evening with look-a-likes, I can go just about anywhere. One last thing, what pops into my head, as an analogy, though not exactly, is when a woman is raped, there is always small group of woman who say basically they asked for it because they were dressed a certain way, what did they expect. I see gays do the same to other gays who are beaten up. In my mind, it is those who want a specific “type” of anything, will be cruel and harsh to that which is different!

  31. Poe says

    It seems like this crap only goes on in gay bars that are located in Podunk, USA.
    They want straight antigay thugs to like them better : SEE DADDY AND MOMMY WE HATE THE DRAGS TOO !

  32. Chris says

    @UFFDA
    25 years ago when I came out, there were plenty of young gay guys who wouldn’t go to gay bars and thought the gay community sucked. This is not new or avant-garde in any way.

  33. Knock says

    Corey couldn’t resist bottom-bashing in his diatribe about acceptance of all gays of any stripe.

    Bashing masculine gays is okay, but don’t you dare criticize drag queens or femmes.

    Your double standard is showing.

  34. Terry says

    This bar has always tried to limit entrance to (what they perceive as) “manly” types. It’s known as a good place to go if you’re a more average guy. This remains a plus to a lot of guys. They even used to exclude women altogether until they were more or less forced to change that policy.

    Unfortunately for them, times have changed. What was once considered “exclusivity” is now being exposed considered what it’s always really been: discrimination. These practices aren’t tolerated like they used to be. Besides, most guys know that it’s never a generally good idea to piss off anyone in drag regardless of gender or gender identity.

  35. Vito Marzano says

    Let’s get some things clear-

    I was not denied entry because I was in drag, I was explicitly denied entry because my gender presentation did not match the gender on my ID. Also, this idea that I approached the door with an attitude is total and utter nonsense. Yes, I did become irate, but that was after I was being told I wouldn’t be allowed in due to my gender presentation. That was after I removed my wig and tried to accommodate them.

    Here are some interesting things about Colorado law-
    1) A bar is under no legal obligation to ID someone if they know they are 21. The general manager has subsequently admitted to knowing I had been in the bar drinking before.
    2) Colorado has anti-discrimination laws that protect homosexuals and transgender. In terms of CO law, transgender is used to describe individuals who have a “gender identity or gender expression that differs from societal expectations based on gender assigned at birth.”
    3) There is a video of the security guard *confirming* that I was not being allowed in due to the gender on my ID not matching how I was presenting. Anybody that is trying to say it was due to other reasons is guilty of revisionism.
    4) Since I have started the Boycott, many people have come forward and talked about being discriminated against by the Wrangler. In fact, a local DJ was denied entry simply because his look was to feminine, even though his ID photo looks just like him.

  36. Poe says

    Vito,

    all the anti feminine gay bashers here are just self hating former christians…don’t worry.

    Worst GAYS ever are the ones that want to burp, watch football and grow their beards out thinking it will give them a better life. lol

  37. Chad says

    here’s the thing, what is masculine or feminine is relative, everyone has a different opinion of what defines gender for them. So unless they post something that has specifics like “Men must wear pants” etc then they can’t get away with this. Exclusivity has never been a good thing.

  38. shorty says

    ….and so, post-victory for SSM Equality, the anti-assimilationist purge began as the coalition that had won their hard fought rights fractured, setting brother against brother, sister against sister

  39. anon says

    Vito: unfortunately, most states don’t have an endless list of “just cause” ordinances barring every conceivable form of discrimination. What you are seeking is a “just cause” right to admittance. Please talk to a civil rights attorney about the issue as relates to city and state law there. Most likely any retail establishment in the city can enforce admittance policies you would find unjust but are perfectly acceptable under the law. Clothing or lack thereof is not a completely arbitrary right, and it’s long been established in law that businesses can set dress code policies, along with behavior rules and rules against solicitation, political activity, performances, etc. However, you are free to protest the bar and try to shame them in the press. Issues involving your ID could get very complicated under city and state law, so you should seek some proper legal advice. Unfortunately, the remedies available to you under the law are probably not going to be all that exciting.

  40. RonCharles says

    The last thing any gay bar should do is to discriminate against anyone: masculine, feminine, male, female, straight, gay, in drag, in leather, transexual, whatever! There is enough discrimination, and gays, having been victims of it for far too long, should know better than to practice it.

  41. Mike says

    My understanding is that the genesis of this problem involved enforcement of drinking age laws, and more than a few gay bars in Denver getting burned over the admittance of underage individuals in drag using faked ID’s. The policy was changed to protect the bars’ liquor licenses, not out of a desire to exclude people in drag or trans people.

  42. ScottyNorq says

    Its not a leather bar. That is what the Eagle is for a few miles down the street. The Wrangler is a bear bar. Its pretty fun on Sunday’s for beer bust. They didn’t until recently allow women to participate in beer bust. The excuse they use for their ID policy is that they cannot control if minors get in if they do not have this policy. Yes they need to be worried about that but I feel they are hiding behind that policy in a effort to keep the trans people and drag queens out. Any other day of the week the Wrangler really isn’t that fun anyways….

  43. Mark says

    Can we not have a gay bar where men aren’t wearing dresses??? The Wrangler is one of my favorite bars in the country. If you are a drag queen I support your right to be a drag queen. But I am not into drag AT ALL. I don’t want to see it. It is like clowns…they creep me out. Why can’t there be gay bars where we don’t have to be around clowns and drag queens???? Drag queens are in EVERY gay bar in America practically. It promotes the stereotype that if you are gay you MUST want to wear a dress and act like a girl. Again if you are a drag queen and that is who you are bravo. It takes guts to be who you are. But why can’t I go to a bar and be me and be around guys like me.

  44. Timothy says

    The Wrangler has always for as long as I can remember been this policy. Drag down Queens can go to Charlies. A leather bar should not have to cater to ‘princesses’ or ‘wannabe cueens’ 😉

    I took your Q and gave you a C! ha

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