Gay Buffalo Teen Kills Himself After Years of Bullying: VIDEO

WIVB report:

Parents carry on anti-bullying message: wivb.com

The Gay and Lesbian Youth Services of Western New York can be reached at 855-0221 or glyswny.org .

There are also national places to turn to for help. They are all free and confidential and available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

The Trevor Project
24/7 Suicide Hotline for GLBTQI Youth
1-866-4-U-Trevor
www.thetrevorproject.org

USA National Suicide Prevention Hotline
24/7, Free & Confidential
1-800-SUICIDE

Comments

  1. MikeInSanJose says

    Congratulations to Christian Coalition’s Robert Newman.

    Your attitudes and acceptance of anti-gay bullyin have claimed another child’s life and destroyed another family.

    I hope you’re pleased with yourself.

  2. Randy says

    I feel so very sorry for this boy’s family and friends. Words cannot discribe what anger and loss these folks must be feeling at this moment.

    People say that every civil right’s battle has been at the cost of bloodshed. How many more innocent victims must die before the bloodshed will end? I don’t remember African Americans committing suicide because of bullying and feelings of being oppressed before they gained civil rights. Were there such suicides?

  3. Rick says

    “So he hung around with the girls a lot, so then the teasing started happening like ‘Oh you’re such a girl or you’re gay or whatever and that bothered him for many years.”

    And this is the essence of the problem. Boys who realize they are attracted to other guys do not have masculine role models that can help them understand that one’s sexuality does not mean that one has to forfeit one’s masculinity (and the respect that comes with it). In part they do not have this because the prevailing culture of “gay”–ironically, in tandem with the larger culture–gives them no alternative but to become quasi-girls, which, in turn, leads them to be disrespected and ridiculed by other boys, destroying their self-respect and any hope for living a natural life.

    And in this case, you see that juxtaposition in its most tragic and sickening form–idolization of Lady Gaga and suicide going hand-in-hand, both symptoms of the same problem.

    And the longer some of you people go on equating being gay with being a sissy/quasi-girl and go on condoning such an associatiion, both in the gay community and in the society at large, these tragedies will continue to occur…..

    It is YOUR fault, whether you are willing to face it or not….

  4. Rick says

    “I don’t remember African Americans committing suicide because of bullying and feelings of being oppressed before they gained civil rights. Were there such suicides?”

    No, because regardless of what society threw at them, black men still had self-respect; gay men, by and large, do not have self-respect, because they have let society strip them of their masculinity instead of fighting against it…..

  5. TyN says

    RICK – I’ve seen you post this deluded nonsense before. Some people are just more effeminate than others. It’s their personality.
    Not all straight men are hardcore butch either. Your whole post shows how much self-hate and denial you yourself have.

  6. justme says

    That child was an angel on Earth who was driven to the grave by the monsters that he was surrounded by purely due to an accident of geography. Another place might have had another outcome. That’s why we must always work to make everywhere safe for every LGBT child, especially the most vulnerable, the most sensitive, and the most beautiful.

    And, Rick, seriously: get over yourself. This is not the time or place to be a self-aggrandizing ass. Nobody cares what you think.

  7. says

    guys like RICK are the reason this young man took his life. RICK is a bigoted coward who is still sucking up to a misogynistic anti-gay rather who hated him, and hated “femme fags” and RICK has decided to lash out at the young people who are defying this baseless bigotry.

    we’re losing beautiful young souls because grown-up cowards like RICK never grew a pair of balls, and join in with the heterosexual bigots in mocking, demeaning, insulting and demonizing young LGBT people who don’t happen to embody some ridiculous concept of gender-conformity.

    the problem isn’t that “people think gay = sissy”

    the problem is bigoted cowards like RICK who think that any gay men who doesnt embody the most classless, neanderthal boorish qualities associated with a “man” is deserving of mockery.

    RICK, you deserve to die alone.

  8. Schniffy says

    Can’t begin to imagine Jamey’s torment. Also can’t help wondering through which crack his decision to leave us seeped in? Especially after reading this bio sketch and watching his vids. May we understand where these cracks can appear so that we as a society can try to provide reinforcements. Rest peacefully Jamey and condolences to the family.

  9. MattCA181 says

    @Rick
    You understand nothing. I love my girlfriends. It does nothing to take away from how I view my “masculinity” whatever that means. People are going to go where they get understanding, support, and joy.

    I know have always I felt more respect because the people I surround myself with respect me for who I am.

    No one should ever live to others expectations. That is a struggle in life.

    I am very sorry to everyone in Jamey’s life.

  10. nodnarb says

    Why is Rick still allowed to post here? Between this nonsense and the HIV-doesn’t-cause-AIDS crap he posts, his messages are downright dangerous.

    Towleroad, which honestly has had the same crap design for 10 years, could really benefit from a beefed up comment system that lets us vote these idiot trolls down.

  11. John Racicot says

    “Lady Gaga and suicide go hand-in-hand”????? Lady Gaga speaks to these young people, they identify with what she is saying. Take away all the make-up and flash and listen to what she is saying to them in her songs. They are thanking her for speaking to them through her music, it is just too bad they could not get past their individual pain.
    You are entitled to your opinion, and I’m entitled to mine. Your an a$$ h0LE

  12. says

    RICK complains, every day, about “femme gays” and the need for “masculine gay male role models” and yet in every other post he demands that gay people don’t “have” to Come Out.

    this is why he’s a wimp. he hates that “femme gays” are visible and yet demands that gays that “pass for white” (as i like to call it) don’t HAVE to Come OUt.

    so RICK is a wimp and a coward. He’s not MAN enough to be Out, visibly and vocally, to be a face and name and voice for the LGBT Community, and is pissed off that all the men and women who DO have that strength are “too stereotypically gay”

    Put up or SHUT up, RICK.you can’t blame other gays for having more strength, courage and BALLS than you.

    you can’t complain about the lack of male role models and then in the same breath say it’s nobody’s business and your “right to privacy” to not be Out.

    we get it. your dad didnt’ want a fag for a son, and he got one, and the only way you were able to win his tolerance was by castrating yourself, and insist to him that you’ll hate Blacks and Other Gays just as much as he does , in hopes that one day he’ll love you again

    judging from your nonstop hateful anti-gay posts every day, that moment never came. your dad didnt hate you because you’re gay, but because you’re such a complete wimp about it.

    i was more man at 16 than you’ll ever be.

    guys like you are the reason this beautiful young soul in the story took his life – you’re such a coward you choose to side with the bullies and bigots to save your own ass, not stand up to defy hatred and prejudice.

    you’ll get what you deserve.

  13. says

    I feel terrible that this nice kid should have found his situation so unbearable…..
    My sympathies go out to his family and to those who supported him…..

    @RICK: if I had to hang out with jocks to be considered “normal” I’d sooner eat sh*t….as far as I’m concerned following jock culture (sic) is beyond pathetic.

    And WTF is a “quasi-girl” ?

    And being disrespected by other boys , is the other boys’ problem , not the victim’s.

  14. Rin says

    @Rick

    There is a time and a place for whatever it is you’re saying or something…I don’t know.

    I just know that it is inappropriate now.

    How do you know that having those “girl” friends didn’t keep him around that much longer? People can’t live in isolation, children especially.

    This is so sad. I look at his little face and I’m crying. It’s terribly tragic.

    As a mother, I swear I would pull my child out of school and either home school or take them somewhere else if this happened to one of them. But before I did that I would be at these kid’s homes speaking to their crappy parents about what evil, horrible little monsters they are raising.

    Parents NEED to be aware of how serious this is and be serious about it. Kids today can’t get away like we did. They are bullied at school, through texts, through social media.

    Your kid may hate you for moving them to another school, but let them hate you. At least they will live and some day forgive you.

    What a freakin’ terrible shame.

  15. mike128 says

    Another tragedy. The only thing positive is that at least now the media is covering this stuff. I dont think this is anything new guys – sadly – though maybe the internet has made bullying more intense. Suicide has always been a serious issue for young people in our community. We all need to think about ways we can do more.

  16. says

    @MIKE128: Yes, you must surely and tragically be correct……is this only the tip of the iceberg that we are hearing about ?
    Is it a huge problem everywhere ? And sadly the teachers belong to a generation that glorified the jock atmosphere. ( culture would be too flattering a word for it ).

  17. Ben in Oakland says

    Rick is correct in one thing: I think that some, maybe a lot, of gay and lesbian kids need lesbian and gay role models to learn that they can be gay AND happy, adjusted, secure in their personalities. My hetero father taught me what it means to be a man (and I’m not referring to some ersatz masculkinity), but he had nothing to say to me about being a GAY man.

    As for why black kids don’t commit suicide for being bullied? No black kid has wever been kicked out of his fmaily, church, or community for being BLACK.

    Which is why gay kids could use gay adult roles models.

  18. Rin says

    @Rick,

    the more I think about what you said the madder I get.

    How DARE you say something so stupid? Behavior doesn’t dictate your physical form. RuPaul is just as much a man as you and I’ll bet he could kick your butt, too.

    Kids need to feel free to be and act how they want without FEAR of people doing them harm.

    Instead of telling little gay kids how they should act we should be telling ALL KIDS that cruelty and violence is unacceptable behavior.

    UNACCEPTABLE.

    I don’t care if he wore glitter lipstick it doesn’t give kids the right to be cruel. Their parents should teach them that, but they’re probably too busy commuting to and from work so they can afford Volvos instead of Chevys.

    The cruelest kids at the school where I worked were the ones whose parents were always working and never caring enough to spend an ounce of time training them to be decent people. Their values are screwed up and schools need to think farther down the road than just maintaining order, but promoting a healthy respect for all.

    This child did not need to have one day of feeling unloved. Not one.

    Gosh, you make me so mad.

    And the worst part is Rick that you could be as “masculine” as Tony Romo or Michael Vick and the “straight” guys I know would still make fun of you when you left because that is how they are socialized to think. It’s not how “masculine” you behave that makes them accept you, you ignorant a$$. Those same guys all have comments when you’re not around. They snicker and joke about you because by saying you’re gay they think you’ve given a blow job before. LIKE A WOMAN. Oooooooh, got to have them as friends! Straight men stay 7 years old mentally until they turn 35!

    So cozy up to them all you want, but know this…even the liberal ones call you their “gay friend” when you’re not around, Mr. Masculine Tough Guy.

    How do I know? Because those same straight dudes that accept you are always trying to feel up the tits of women like me and ask us dumb questions like why we like gay men so much–even the ones that have their token gay friends.

    You need to do yourself a favor and learn to accept that straight, gay, masculine, feminine, is all just superficial labeling crap and learn to love others and yourself.

    We are spiritual creatures having a HUMAN existence.

  19. walter says

    chalk up another one for michele bachmann and
    others of the christian right who don’t see bullying as an issue. bullying kills and it is time for people get off their butts an do something about it. the it gets better project is good but more has to be done.

  20. TJ says

    RICK – I responded to you on another thread about your views on masculinity and femininity. We had the beginnings of a civil exchange going. I tried, twice, to post a lengthy response to your last post on that thread, but for some reason, the posts didn’t go through.

    Reading your latest rantings, however, make me want to be so uncivil in response. I don’t know from where you get your point of view, but you need to start shopping elsewhere. What you see as “natural” and “normal” for all is simplistic and denies the naturally occurring variations in humans as well as all of nature. As we learn and challenge belief systems, we come closer to truths. Different isn’t bad. Feminine isn’t bad. If this poor kid was rejected and chose to seek companionship from
    females – as if that is a bad thing! – do we blame him for not trying to fit in and appease and s*ck up to his oppressors, or do we learn and grow and challenge belief systems and tell the bullies that THEY are the wrong ones?

    Speaking of s*cking, do you s*ck d*ck? Because the people you are trying to fit in with will likely never consider that natural or masculine, no matter how butch you come off. Unless they challenge their belief systems. Just sayin’.

  21. Rin says

    @Eric

    THANK YOU!

    How can anyone look at those big brown eyes and say something as stupid and ignorant as what Rick said?

    Oh, I can’t even imagine what his mom must feel like knowing that she can’t do things differently to bring her baby back.

    I cannot stop crying over this. I can’t.

    He should be the poster child for why mean-spirited aholes should be kicked out of school for the first offense.

    We had a child at my school, not gay, but picked on for being “a nerd” and a poor one at that. His father was always telling him to fight back, but come on! These kids were football players and he weight 110 lbs soaking wet.

    He killed himself with his father’s revolver because he wanted to prove that he wasn’t a coward.

    Do not place unreasonable expectations on children. Support them and love them just as they are.

  22. Rin says

    @Tony

    Honestly, I don’t want to look through his little Tumblr :(

    It would feel worse, knowing that the person who wrote it is dead now.

    Dammit, why is this one upsetting me so?

  23. Rick says

    “Unless they challenge their belief systems”

    And THAT is what needs to happen. Homosexuality and masculinity have been “compatible” in some cultures and societies–and can be again, but effeminacy and masculinity are inherently incompatible. We need to change the overall male culture to achieve the former again, but that will always be impossible as long as gay men continue to internalize the prevailing notion that homosexuality and masculinity are not compatible and behave accordingly. Their conscious embrace of effeminacy poisons the well and makes it impossible for other men to change.

    Most of you just cannot see that because society has done such a thorough job of stripping you of any masculine identity whatsoever that you truly don’t even know what one is any more.

    It is a thorny problem, to be sure, but until the problem has been solved, “It gets better” will just be a hollow platitude to millions of young men like the one in question here.

    Masculinity is entirely NATURAL for men, just as femininity is entirely NATURAL for women and both phenomena have physiological bases. So the desperate hopes of some of these people that effeminate behavior will ever be acceptable for males (or masculine behavior for females) will never, ever be realized. Indeed, the fact that the kids in question in this case (and others like it) are part of the generation that so many of you have been relying on to be different from their parents just underscores that fact.

    Homophobia can be overcome with the right approach, but crusades against masculinity are doomed to failure……

    And until most of you come to terms with that reality and your own issues, no real change will occur.

  24. anon says

    Another set of parents in denial about the problems their kid was facing… It would be nice if teen depression had an easy cure, but drugs that often work well with adults don’t seem to help teens too much. There is essentially no suicide without clinical depression, though some anti-depressants do seem to increase the likelihood of suicide (ironically). Parents need to learn what the signs of depression in teens are.

  25. Rin says

    @Rick

    you are full of crap. “Homosexuality” wasn’t even a term until a few hundred years ago, ergo it was not “compatible” as you put it at some fantasy time period ago that you seem to glorify.

    You can pretend all you want to make yourself feel all butch, but you are wrong. I have 3 advanced degrees that say you are wrong, wrong, and wrong.

    “Masculinity” to the ancients was associated with penetration. “Femininity” was associated with “receiving”. Men who received were ALWAYS considered lesser than men who penetrated. In ancient culture you would have the “a” sound associated with your name if it was found out that you received another man’s penis, IE. you were considered a “girl”.

    Considering that someone during what we now call “homosexual” sex receives at some point, there is no historical “manliness” that you can attach to it.

    “Caesar is every woman’s man and every man’s woman”

    Ever hear that? Why was that an insult if homosexuality and manliness were so intertwined?

    Hopefully, we grow into the fact that whatever you do sexually doesn’t define you, that you don’t have to act a certain way to achieve and receive respect.

    Men who are “feminine” are just as much men as men who are “masculine”…whatever those two stupid terms mean.

    You need to get over this men need to act a certain way and grow into the fact that HUMANS can act any old way they wish and still should be accepted and respected.

  26. Rick says

    Listen to RIN, everybody. Sounds threatened, doesn’t she, by the notion of masculinity and homosexuality being compatible? Do you suppose that has to do with being a straight woman and fearing that her source of power over men would be diminished if our culture ever embraced such compatibility? Yes, I think so.

    And you should all do your homework.

    Here is a little sampling of what is out there in terms of the documentation of human societies in which masculinity and homosexuality were not only compatible, but in which homosexuality was a critical component of masculine expression…..

    http://books.google.com/books?id=1ha9GgWNmy0C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=the+asmat+bisexual&source=bl&ots=MKGBo7q_zm&sig=KOsfTXwQMf-bosGlnC0sT-_QphI&hl=en&ei=2Nx4Tt6mHNSgtgftiMidDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

  27. TJ says

    RICK – what do you know about child development? About temperament? About biopsychology? About hormones? About variation? About identity development?

    Your manifesto is limited, archaic, and possibly evil. I see little hope of opening your closed mind. It seems dozens of people on this board disagree profoundly with you. The fact that you have been challenged by so many and yet concede nothing and learn nothing has me seeing little hope for you as a fellow human being. I hope someone out there loves you. The rest of us? Not so much.

  28. Rin says

    @Rick

    Oh, yes, that’s me. I have sooooooo much power over men in society. In fact, every day I pat myself on the back because women own all the wealth, all the land, have most of the political power, and I guess we own outer space, too.

    Listen here, you pathetic piece of worm dung. I am upset because as a MOTHER–you know those people that give birth to children I see a CHILD that died because SOCIETY is so fricking CRUEL that they can’t accept people wanting to exist and do their own thing.

    You want to know what “guys” post about in this wonderful masculine world?

    Head on over to THE SUPERFICIAL

    where you get great headlines like:

    Poppy Montgomery Can Cook Without Pants on, Too.

    OR

    Anna Faris is Cleavage-y and other news

    Or how about “I don’t like you in that way”

    where you can read such masculine, manly edumacated stuff like:

    Hugh Jackman was on Raw the other night in a purple headband

    OR

    Alice Goodwin and Sammy Brady (two hooker looking women) Say Good Afternoon

    Of course, hahaha, her tits are saying good afternoon.

    Yes, you are so right. Masculine men really are superior in thought and whatever that they deserve to own 99% of the world’s property and 98% of all political positions.

    Wait, you’re the one that thinks I have all the power and am afraid of losing it.

    Okay, you got me. I’m the behind the scenes reptilian ruler of the world.

  29. Rick says

    @TJ Do you really want to go there? Because there is now a boatload of evidence demonstrating how hormonal differences result in differences between the genders in behavior. It is also well-documented that the very composition of the brains of men and women differ in terms of the percentage of “gray matter”, among other things, which also leads to fundamental behavioral differences between the genders.

    I assure you I can slaughter you intellectually if you try to make the claim that gender is a “construct.”

    No, what is a “construct” is for a 14-year-old boy to befriend only females and relate only to females after “struggling with his sexuality” because he obviously concluded that his perfectly natural sexual inclination towards other males was “unmanly”……and it is clear from his mother’s comments that there was a cause and effect between the two.

    Indeed, look at the tape he made and you hear him say that he had plenty of support from his parents and his (all female) friends….and he had even been “reached” by the “It Gets Better” campaign….but all to no avail. In the end, his lack of self-respect overrode all those considerations…..and it is clear where that lack of self-respect comes from in most gay men…..

  30. Diego says

    I think Rick has a valid point. There is an artificial association b/t being gay and being girlish. And there is a gay culture that reinforces that association. It is perfectly acceptable for gay men to refer to one another by female names and by referring to “she” and “her”. It is practically mandatory to use the label “LGBT”which falsely asserts a common identity b/t gays and transsexuals. And if anyone dares challenge this, they are subjected to personal attacks, as demonstrated in the comments above.

    This idea that being gay is to be something other than a man or woman is a holdover from a different time. The people who created these cultural norms had their reasons for doing so as they were dealing with a society that considered them mentally ill or a third sex. But that time is over and we should start telling gay boys that they are every bit the boy as their straight peers. If that makes Towleroad dinosaurs uncomfortable, then so be it.

    Of course, the bullies and their parents are the ones who bear ultimate responsibility. And it is also true that some gay boys would be effeminate regardless of any external messages. But to the extent that gay culture tells gay boys and their straight peers that gay boys are destined to become something other than men, it is a contributor to the problem.

  31. Shoe says

    I had some other thoughts I planned to write, but then I watched the video clip of the news report.

    If I had only heard it, I might not have thought there was anything wrong with it.

    But I feel disgusted by how the news channel chose to keep flashing the photo of Jamey with his lips pursed out. Clearly, it is a photo that was “fun.” TOTALLY DISRESPECTFUL as a choice of what to show, when the point they should be driving home is to NOT TEASE OR BULLY gay boys!!

    Did they show the picture along with other ones? Sure. Three different pictures of him, looking younger. But in between, showed the close up that made fun of him, three times.

    Don’t they see what they’re doing??

  32. nodnarb says

    “I assure you I can slaughter you intellectually”

    Bwahahahaha… deep breath… bwahahahahaha!

    You are stupider than a box of wet hair, and no amount of pseudo-intellectual BS is going to change that.

    Rick is the person whose smug face will one day cover all the papers after he opens fire on a boys camp because he’s so much more intellectually superior than everyone else.

  33. Rick says

    @RIN The source of power over men that you have as a woman in this culture is that a) “straight” men define their masculinity in terms of heterosexuality and you and other women control access to the “portal” that validates that maculinity, and b) thanks to a homophobic male culture, men are denied normal emotional bonds with each other and therefore are dependent on women for emotional sustenance

    Take their sexual and emotional dependence on you away and you would not have a great deal of influence over them, would you? And what would the fate of feminism be in the absence of such influence. I think you know.

    And I am sure that is a scary prospect for you and for other women, which is why I have always said that the interests of “gay” men and straight women do not coincide–in reality, they are totally at odds with each other….

    But as long as “gay” men are too dumb to realize that, you can go on employing them as social accessories and pets and confidants…but beware, we are not all that dumb and perhaps that is what makes us “dangerous”, to paraphrase another comment in this thread

  34. Kim says

    @Randy. There were less suicides prior to civil rights movement for Blacks because most of us were in Black families, attended Black churches , lived in Black communities. We had a large support team who shared our struggle. Unfortunately most LGBT teens come from families, communities that are almost all heterosexual so the feel alone.I wish there were organizations like Big Brothers/Sisters specifally for LGBT teens but I know the consevative/ right wing groups would accuse the org of recruiting/converting teens to homosexuality. I see the idiot Keith Ablow is still claiming that Chaz Bono on DWTS will influence kids to be TG. The solution is for LGBT adults to be out to the kids/ teens in their lives relatives , neighbors etc. RIP Jamey

  35. Diego says

    One last thought: I was a big supporter of the It Gets Better project. It seemed like a sensible way to get a simple supportive message to kids who might be on the verge of taking their lives.

    But watching this video, I have to wonder whether the message is really getting through. I mean, if this kid could do an It Gets Better video and then kill himself, something is not working.

    Maybe there are so many videos out there that the message has become diluted. I watched one a few weeks ago in which some guy delivers his message while doing an impression of Professor Snape from Harry Potter for the entire video. The whole thing was kind of a joke. That’s when I first started wondering if this project might have run its course.

    Maybe what we need is to have at least one individual in every city and town who would be willing to talk on the phone or meet in person with any kid who calls. Not to give counseling, but to ensure that the kid gets hooked up with a professional. Maybe these videos are too distant, with no prospect of real dialogue about the kid’s specific situation.

  36. TJ says

    Slaughter me intellectually? More evolved intellectually? My Aunt Fanny!

    Your very words contain the reason your conclusions are flawed. The naturally occurring variations in hormones, in DNA, between individuals accounts for a wide variety of variation within a species. Unique individuals, like snowflakes (and a**holes). Yes, gender is affected by hormones, which are affected by heredity. So is temperament and sensitivity. Being different from the “norm” whether by nature or nurture or a combination doesn’t make one undesirable. Unless one has failed to evolve emotionally and spiritually, which I feel can limit ones ability to use intellect within context.

    When I watched that precious soul tell his story, my heart broke. I didn’t blame him as you seem to, RICK. So what, if by your reasoning, he mistakenly adopted feminine behaviors because he mistakenly believed it was the only way to be? Had people accepted him for who he was in his stage of identity development, he might have had less need to feel as if he HAD to chose and adopt and defend. When you walk alongside someone, rather than confront, the person has less need to defend, to become entrenched. Maybe he would have found his way to the “proper, natural masculinity” you seem to deem superior. Or maybe he would have found that for him, fully embracing his naturally occurring femininity was where he felt more comfortable. And maybe in a more emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually evolved society, however he felt most comfortable being would be okay.

  37. Rick says

    @TJ There is no such thing as “natural femininity” in a male. That is a contradiction in terms. And what you are desperately trying to do is ignore GENDER-SPECIFIC differences in behavior that occur across the board and confuse them with individual differences that have to do with variability within a certain range, among individuals of the same gender. That variability does exist, but it exists in many instances ONLY between individuals of the same gender, who are totally different from the other gender in terms of some basic constitution.

    Nice try, but it won’t work with someone who is really paying attention.

    On some biological/physiological/behavioral level, males are males and females are females and no matter how desperately some of you try to assert otherwise, that fact will not go away.

    And I did not blame this young man for anything. He was a child, who became a victim of the people around him. I simply see him having been victimized by BOTH a hostile culture AND a “gay” culture that reinforces that hostile culture rather than truly contradicting it and trying to change it by making masculinity the “enemy” rather than homophobia.

  38. Michael says

    Y’all go a little easier on Rick. We don’t know him or what he has had to live with that makes him feel the way he does. The last thing he needs from us is grief. We need to reach out to him and let him know that what ever kind of gay a person is, is exactly the kind of gay they should be and there needs to be no judgement of that. If you are a fem, GREAT! If you are a more masculine gay man, SUPER! You are loved and worthy either way. That is the message I want to spread. I love GaGa and football players. Heads up Rick! It’s OK. I know that the tragic ending to Jamey’s life is hurting you as much as it is hurting all of us. We are all trying to make sense of it. There just isn’t any sense of it to make. Love to all of you. Hug your gay friends and family. Make sure they know you love them and that you will be devastated if something bad happens to them. Open your ear to them and lend your shoulder. If they need to cry or scream or just be silent, give them the space to do it. Most of all… Love them! Peace!

  39. TJ says

    Males are males, and females are females. There is masculinity, and there is femininity. There is no such thing as androgyny or the possibility of a predisposition, temperamentally, towards androgyny. There is no value in androgyny, either. Men are SUPPOSED to be masculine, so they should always ACT masculine, and we all know, inherently and infallibly, what specific behaviors, attitudes, thoughts and feelings are the correct ones for our gender. Damn those sissies for confusing us! Without them, acting masculine would be as natural as farting, scratching your balls in public, and drinking beer.

    Funny. I never wanted to put on a dress and wear make up. I never wanted to design dresses or do hair. But I find it very natural to become emotional, to empathize, to foster relationships, and – most of the time –
    nurture. All of these are considered feminine attributes and behaviors. I loved playing with trucks as a kid. I drive a pick-up. I love working with tools, fixing stuff and doing yard work. But I also love decorating. I’d rather watch ballet than football. I cook AND eat quiche. I can’t stand
    beer. I’d rather avoid a fight and seek compromise. I sometimes giggle, and sometimes guffaw like a Neanderthal. I have a firm, authoritative handshake. I also give great tickle baths. I can speak in low, gruff tones displaying little emotion. I have also been accused, on occasion, of being highly dramatic.

    I’m so confused. Perhaps someone with the RIGHT way of being and acting masculine (I’m looking at you, RICK) could devise some sort of
    reparative therapy designed to show me where I’ve gone astray and betrayed my natural, manly self. I’m sure we’d all be happier and others would be more comfortable.

  40. Rin says

    @Rick,

    since you are NOT female, please allow me to clue you in on something that pretty much 99% of all women in the world, be they straight or lesbian understand, and that is…

    We women have about as much power over men as we do over the tides, the weather, or the US economy.

    YOU seem to feel that we have power, so…hey, babe. Go ahead and live in fear and awe. I’m glad someone thinks that we do because I certainly don’t feel it, see it, or recognize it.

    Power is not the ability to get some dude interested in my breasts. That’s just a sight-hound thing in men. True power is getting a job where I have just competed with a man, and not relegated to the slot left open by a female.

    You have some serious self-searching to do if you truly believe that sexuality = power, in fact. You ought to speak to someone because that is a problem also exhibited by sexual offenders.

    As for the “interests” of gay men and straight women “colliding”…this is where you and I diverge drastically.

    I am not interested in “gay men” and “women” or “blacks” or whatever other label you can come up with. I believe that humans are absolutely 100% unique and cannot be defined by labels. I am interested in the struggles of underdog groups–especially interested in supporting kids because I am a mother.

    I see the world very differently now that I have children. I have a child who lives in a world of pixies and unicorns and everyone is a good person and …just not this world the rest of us exist in. When I see a boy like the one in the video, I see my daughter.

    You see an opportunity to put “men” back in a box and remove all individuality and uniqueness.

    I want my daughter to be able to wear combat boots if she wants or heels. I want her to have the opportunity to act however the hell she wants to act without feeling like she has to define herself as gay, straight, transgender, etc.

    I don’t want society to define her, I want her to do it for herself.

    I DO NOT want people like you telling her that she has to fit into some sort of box of what women are like (and then shipped off to whatever gas chamber you want us all to go to).

    And, quite frankly, Rick, you have no business deciding for that precious boy post-facto that he would have been better off had he rubbed some dirt on his pants and played football or whatever it is you think “masculine” men act like.

    YOU choose to see women as being some sort of Borg collective that sit around and fear men coming together in some sort of masculine panacea and then not needing us or whatever it is that you hope happens when such a glorious day should arrive.

    We already see men on the same team because we can see the fruits of that in every single political assembly in the world.

    But all of this is just ridiculous bull baiting when the fact is that the little kid that you thought would have been better off being more masculine is gone now.

    He’ll never see another sunrise. He’ll never have the opportunity to go to college. He’ll never fall in love. He’ll never have his heart broken. He’ll never have it repaired.

    He does not exist because people are gregarious, create labels, and then exclude other people in the nastiest most unkind of ways just so that they can have a laugh.

    So you keep on believing that if you can get all gay men to reject all things “feminine” that somehow the world will quit being cruel, evil, and filled with selfish, self-serving people.

  41. Grahamburger says

    You know what infuriates me the most about Rick?

    Some people are simply more effeminate, naturally. There’s not anything wrong with that. But dangerous people like Rick tell us that we’re what’s wrong with gay society. They tell us we’re the reason straight society can’t accept us.

    And to teenagers like Jamey, who are more effeminate, that’s the door shutting on the only people who can understand and support you in what is undoubtedly the most trying time in a person’s life. There’s not really any effeminate gay role models — probably because effeminacy is seen as being such a weakness. Look at Neil Patrick Harris for instance — and please don’t think I’m criticizing him for the roles he chooses, I’m not — but he plays a womanizer on How I Met Your Mother. So of course he’s turning to Lady Gaga and surrounding himself with girls. It’s all we can do — and obviously sometimes it’s not enough.

    So, Rick, regardless what your opinion on the topic happens to be I implore you to shut up and have some respect for other people in your own community. We need to be there for each other, not tearing each other down. Your zeal is no less dangerous than the zeal of all the people who want to see you stripped of all of your rights, fixed, or put down — not because they see you as effeminate or masculine, but because they see you as a homosexual.

    So, why don’t you worry about your crusade towards masculinity after we’re not being discriminated against by outsiders?

  42. Grahamburger says

    Hold up though — I have a question for you as well, Rick.

    “the source of power over men that you have as a woman in this culture is that a) “straight” men define their masculinity in terms of heterosexuality and you and other women control access to the “portal” that validates that maculinity, and b) thanks to a homophobic male culture, men are denied normal emotional bonds with each other and therefore are dependent on women for emotional sustenance”

    Basically, you’re saying that men need to have female friends for their emotional sustenance, right?

    Wasn’t that *exactly* what led you to believing that Jamey was too effeminate? Because he had too many female friends?

    Make up your damn mind before you, y’know, slaughter us intellectually.

  43. Just_a_guy says

    This is sad. Really sad. And wrong. And–from a CULTURAL perspective–a HUGE finger needs to be pointed first and foremost at the Religious “Conservatives” who teach parents, teachers, and coaches that anti-gay bullying is somehow acceptable in any way.

    To the extent I see something in Rick’s above comments, I think parents, teachers, and coaches should be cognizant of GENDER. This kid was a BOY and identified as such. I suspect his male teachers (INCLUDING PARTICULARLY PERHAPS HIS P.E. TEACHERS!) could have shown more leadership in affirming this kid’s MALE existence. And I also suspect (from my own experience) that the FEMALE teachers could have easily been the WORST in treating him as non-male.

    This isn’t P.C. feminist for me to say…but when WOMEN who feel like they DESERVE their subordinate position treat a GAY MAN (or gay boy) like a “Female” without him expressing an explicit desire for it, those FEMALE teachers set up a class system…with the gay boy as THIRD / SUB-HUMAN class. It’s messed up. And the peer-girls can be just as culpable in reinforcing it through their silence or acceptance. The peer boys are clearly at fault. But those peer girls usually deserve an EQUAL share of the blame for this sort of thing because they sit SILENTLY or in the end ineffectively and ACCEPT this stuff.

    If I were this kid’s older brother, I admit I’d encourage him to make a few male friends who would defend him, believe in him, stand up to the bullies for him. To be 100% honest, that’s how I got through it–and for me, I really don’t know another way.

    So, yeah, my experience is that a few strong straight men are the BEST allies to young gay men (out or not).

    And that women tend to themselves discount the male value in gay men…sorry…but I’m correct. (It is WOMEN in my experience who press for attracted-to-females being what DEFINES manly worth, which is hogwash.)

    I’m not BLAMING this poor innocent soul for a MOMENT. I do suspect his parents could have better helped him, if they knew how. And I also suspect THE TEACHERS AND SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS and their ACCEPTED POLICIES might be the best legal and practical target and source for remedy. I just feel like SOMETHING should be done for to bring justice for this sweet kid’s death.

    The media video reporting it seems anti-gay to me, btw, like they are ALMOST indicating that maybe he DESERVED it for being gay and choosing to hold his lips that way. (And, no, I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with holding your lips that way or behaving effeminately.)

  44. Brian in Texas says

    I don’t have a problem with what Rick says. It is a fact that many gay men act with an affectation in order to fit in with other affected gay men. As a gay man I have more in common with another straight man than a straight or lesbian woman.

    There is in fact such a thing as a masculine and feminine identity. It has been woven into our culture for thousands of years. It’s not going to change. Gay men will go a lot further by embracing that natural identity rather than by fighting it. It also has nothing to do with superficial likes, dislikes, or hobbies.

  45. Hollywood, CA says

    Solutions, solutions, solutions. How can we do more? Here’s an idea: why don’t they have a weekend retreat for GAY BOYS and their DADS? The boys will see that they’re supported by their fathers, that there are many other kids just like them, and the dads will also have other guys to talk to and see how best to help their sons. They could teach the kids how to have self-confidence, gain some knowledge about gay youth, and also how to defend themselves.

    It couldn’t hurt. I think a lot of the problem is that the parents don’t have the tools, especially the straight fathers.

    My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of this little angel.

  46. Joey says

    This story broke my heart. I always wonder what more we can do to help these guys and girls and their parents. My impulse is to tell parents to home school them. No battle is worth the life of a child. I was bullied as a young child and my parents just happened to move. I was able reinvented myself and by the time I was in high school I was very popular. Sometimes kids need to be able to do that because once you are ranked by other kids they never let up.

    To Rick’s point, there is truth in his point that masculine gay men are not portrayed in our broader culture any more. Mostly that is because it easier to brand stereotypes than it is to show real people. It is also easier for masculine men to hide in the closet especially if they want to live within the Jock culture. That culture is the most bigoted and brutal toward gay people outside of religion. But a lot of gay guys love playing basketball. Yet how many times have we heard sports guys say gay guys shouldn’t come out. Being a masculine gay man is not easy either. One reason it scares the heteros is because it breaks the oath and the brand of male hetero superiority. In a world where woman are making rapid progress and kicking male ass in the marketplace they need to hang on to something.

    The ending of DADT is the biggest step we have made toward ending the illusion that all gay men are effeminate and that all straight men are macho. And the reverse for Lesbians. The point is being gay doesn’t mean you are fem. It just means you’re gay. I am sure Lady Gaga would be the first to agree with that.
    But Rick, blaming this kid’s death on effeminate gays is hateful bigotry, plain and simple. You need to stop letting other people define you.

  47. BEAHBEAH says

    I cannot believe the sheer ignorance being spouted by some people on this board. The idea that masculinity and femininity are genetic traits is absolutely laughable. Gender roles are social constructs, period. They were created by society and we have continued to inflict them upon our children throughout the generations.

    Boys are no more likely to be butch and want to play football than a girl is going to want to wear pretty dresses and clean up the kitchen. I can’t believe in this day and age people truly believe this BS. Get an education for Christ’s sake.

    If men were truly meant to be masculine based on nature, then I guess we homosexuals shouldn’t exist. There’s nothing more feminine than taking it up the @ss or sucking on another guys junk. And from a genetic and evolutionary standpoint, homosexuality makes no sense.

    You self-loathing homosexuals are absolutely disgusting. To sit there and say you think people should conform to your idea of what a gay man should be. You sound just like the “Pray The Gay Away” folks who want us to conform to being heterosexual.

  48. says

    “a HUGE finger needs to be pointed first and foremost at the Religious “Conservatives” who teach parents, teachers, and coaches that anti-gay bullying is somehow acceptable in any way”

    And HUGE finger needs to be pointed at Rick.

    Internalized homophobia is a disease. Happily it’s curable. But in Rick’s case I doubt it.

  49. Jeff says

    This kid went to my high school. I can’t believe there are still idiot kids in Buffalo who taunt gay kids around, but that suburban mentality of minority bashing is sadly the norm. The culture has to change, it’s the same “no homo” and “fag” lyrics that these bullies idolize that gives them license to torment kids like Jamey, and someone from that hip hop world has to stand up and say, shut the f*(@ up kids and respect your gay friends. If every major recording artist who these biggots worship would come out with a definitive stance against homophobia, I guarantee we’d be better off. This has to be a bigger effort.

  50. shle896 says

    I hope the rotten kids who literally teased this boy to death burn in hell! They may be kids, but they’re old enough to know better. and I hope this haunts them for the rest of their miserable lives and I think their parents should be ashamed of the way their kids turned out. Totally disgusting!

  51. Rick says

    @TJ Yes, my friend, you are very, very confused, as are many of these people.

    “But I find it very natural to become emotional, to empathize, to foster relationships, and – most of the time –
    nurture. All of these are considered feminine attributes and behaviors.”

    Actually, that depends. In this culture, it is perfectly acceptable for men to “foster relationships”….but only with WOMEN. In most non-Western cultures, the principal emotional bonds of men are to other men and romantic love for women is considered a frivolity, not to be taken seriously and certainly no basis for marriage.

    You see, you are so much a product of your culture that you, yourself, buy the notion that your perfectly natural feelings are “feminine”–and so you classify yourself as “feminine” for having them.

    Now, that said, the men in non-Western cultures who are bonded emotionally do NOT condone effeminacy–they bond with each other in a uniquely masculine way that has nothing to do with women or their ways.

    This is why I pity so many of you at the same time that you anger me. You are victims of this culture but just lack the wide-ranging experiences and intellectual breadth to grasp that, which is necessary if we are to create something truly new and better. You are stuck in the old paradigms without even realizing it and you misguidedly think the solution is to attack masculinity (which is futile) rather than to re-define it.

    You want to throw the baby out with the bathwater rather than just cleaning up the bathwater itself…..and that is where enlightenment is needed.

  52. Rick says

    “Basically, you’re saying that men need to have female friends for their emotional sustenance, right?

    Wasn’t that *exactly* what led you to believing that Jamey was too effeminate? Because he had too many female friends?

    Make up your damn mind before you, y’know, slaughter us intellectually”

    @Graham In spite of yourselves, some of you are beginning to get it, whether you recognize it or not. What gay men and straight men in this culture have in common is their excessive dependence emotionally on women, although it takes different forms. Both have difficulty relating to other men and the consequence is unhappiness in both cases.

    Changing that fundamental problem requires a return to a natural state in which women are not central to the lives of men, socially or emotionally. And ALL men would benefit from that, regardless of sexual orientation.

    But in order to achieve it, the happy medium has to be reached, away from the extremes of a gay culture that embraces effeminacy and a straight culture that forbids any intimacy between men.

  53. Rin says

    @Rick,

    you can only speak for you, just as I can only speak for me. You bring up “other cultures”, but you are making a global synthesis of certain tribes, etc. because it meets your agenda, no different than Pat Robertson or other TBs out there.

    The problem isn’t that people aren’t segregated enough or that people aren’t lined up the right way and in the right box. Humanity has ALWAYS chosen to label, group, creates cliques, etc.

    Gay men are just two people of the male sex who are attracted to the male sex. That’s it. All of you are more different than you are the same. Some gay men, perhaps read Harlan Ellison. Some gay men might read Oscar Wilde. Others might like Tom Clancy. Every human being is unique.

    Some have peanut allergies. Some can eat peanuts but shellfish will kill them. Some gay men only like brunettes. Others are less particular.

    YOU choose to miss my point which is that true tolerance is about people respecting the desires of an individual to pick and choose whatever he or she want to do in life, regardless of why.

    I had a starter jacket in high school because everyone else got one. Didn’t mean that I didn’t love the starter jacket. It was my choice to buy it because the other kids had it, was I being a sheep? Yes. Still my choice.

    Later, I decided to wear combat boots with skirts because NO ONE was doing it (at the time).

    We are all of us allowed to try different things, to conform or not to conform. We are allowed to exist–we have a right to exist in peace and not be schooled by anyone–not you, not our parents, not our teachers…no one on HOW we should be.

    We are spiritual creatures having a human experience.

    That young man…all we know of him are some videos and blogs–not enough to judge what he felt like, or didn’t feel like. Not enough to know if he really liked Lady Gaga or just pretended to be effeminate to get girls to hang out and be his shield. We don’t know if he would have wanted to play football or basketball. Maybe he wanted to be a MMA fighter? Who knows.

    We know the choices he DID make for himself and all of us should respect them–especially now that he is gone.

    What we should not respect is how he was treated by others!

    @Rick, I used to be like you but in the opposite direction. I had a nose ring, was a riotgurrl, all that garbage. Then…well, I had some seriously otherworldly shroom experiences–no judgments! That led me to believe that I could be male, female, dolphin, or whatever and I am still a divine creature deserving of love and to love others for the spirit within them.

    To quote Yoda, we are more than this mortal coil. To group and cluster people and deny their infinite-ness, their unique spirit is what has cause all of the social ills since the dawn of time.

    Different “groups” have been in charge, different cultures…but it has always spawned selfishness and cruelty eventually because that is what groups do.

    The way out is as the Buddha taught, as Jesus in the GOSPELS taught and that is through accepting we are spiritual beings and being above the petty fray of human selfishness.

    LOVE, Rick, is the only way through. Had that boy been loved, had others been taught to love…this tragedy would not have happened.

  54. TJ says

    RICK – when, and how, did I attack masculinity? The attacking here seems to be done by you, by decrying the feminine. And the qualities I mentioned ARE considered feminine in this culture, and are not necessarily embraced as desirable ones for “real” men. So you don’t have to pity me, and can clearly agree that I am confused, what would constitute, to you, acceptable masculine identity and behavior, and what would be suspect? Just keep in mind that just because something is how things have “always” been or seems universal, it doesn’t make it the best for everyone or even anyone.

  55. Jay says

    There ARE gay male role models out there.

    Anderson Cooper, Neil Patrick Harris, Matt Bomer, Ian McKellen, George Michael, David Sedaris, Bryan Singer, Michael Stripe (REM), and many many more. None of which may be considered “femme” and “girly”.

    The problem is not that there is no role models. Our attitude as a country towards gay youth must change.

  56. ratbastard says

    @BEAHBEAH,

    I cannot believe the sheer ignorance being spouted by some people on this board. The idea that masculinity and femininity are genetic traits is absolutely laughable. Gender roles are social constructs, period.

    ======================

    Tell that to David Reimer

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

    You should be ashamed of yourself, sprouting such B.S.

  57. ratbastard says

    When I came out as a ‘youth’, I was sorely disappointed in the gay ‘community’. 99% of gay organizations were run by and designed for ‘effete’, or semi-effete dudes. I’m neither nor am I ‘butch’. I did not fit in, and the cliquish effete ‘dudes’ who were [are?] the face the gay ‘community’ shows the world were/are a**h***s [and bullies] in their own right. Gay ‘pride': dudes acting like chicks, dressed as nuns,’twinks’, and ‘daddies’, bears, etc. in leather. I’ll NEVER fit into any of these ‘scenes’.

  58. TJ says

    RAT – what if, because of Reimer’s particular, inborn potential, the reassignment had been successful? What if this had been a happy accident, that they made a a girl out of a boy, and she liked it?

    Nature AND nurture. It’s not one or the other. The “acceptable” expression of gender is, largely, a social construct. Sure, from a very early age, kids seem to glom onto and prefer “typical” gender expression. Boys tend to prefer rough and tumble play, and parallel play. Girls tend to prefer relational play. Kids seem to identify with the “right” gender and adopt the “appropriate” behaviors. But not everyone. If we insist on the “correct” behavior from everyone, we are assuming that one size fits all when one size rarely fits anyone.

    Should I have been forced to play with toy soldiers as a child? Even though my brothers all did, it didn’t interest me in the slightest. At age six, I wanted to plant a garden. I did not dream of t-ball. When I drew pictures, I preferred drawing flowers and animals to pictures of monsters wreaking destruction. Should my crayons have been taken away? Should I have been to forced to watch sports on TV with my brothers and father when I really preferred reading? Was the fact that I built forts nullified by the fact that I also enjoyed building a house and playing “family” with the neighbor girls? Should I only have been praised for playing flag football with my brothers and friends, and rightfully shunned for joining chorus
    (yeah, that one officially labeled me a sissy). My individual nature, despite the nurture of my environment, drew me to non-normative gender expression.

    If we insist on “correct” behavior, let’s all sign up for reparative therapy right now, because “gay” isn’t typical. But I would argue that it is natural for me. I would also argue for living and letting live. That includes accepting that some people are a lot more effeminate than I am personally comfortable with. Because I think it is damn manly and masculine to be the best “me” I can be without unnecessary compromise, and also to not feel the need to force others to conform.

  59. lovable teddy says

    ok so now everyone is pointing and lashing out on rick yes he is arogant and needs to realize what being a mature man is however we are no better then him if we start acting out and pointing out everything he says as wrong and the comment saying he deserves to die alone we need to be the better person and help this family get through this tragic time rip jamey you will forever remain in our hearts <3

  60. Michael says

    Rick — You definitely have some interesting points of view. I cannot agree with most of them and they leave me wondering how you are qualified to make these opinions. But nonetheless, I wish you love and I hope that you can come to terms with the variations in the human psyche that make us each individuals. It is not wrong to be an effeminate man or a masculine woman or anywhere in between. Culture may have something to do with it. So does genetics I am certain. At any rate, regardless of how this boy’s personality was, he never deserved to be made to feel worthless. He was worthy as a human being and his family and friends will miss him. My heart goes out to them. And although I didn’t know Jaymie, somehow I feel the world is just a little bit less wonderful without him.

  61. Rick says

    @TJ and RIN Still missing the point, I see.

    There is nothing wrong with INDIVIDUALS expressing their INDIVIDUALISM.

    Can a man who likes football also develop a quirky interest in needlepoint? Sure, it’s possible. Should he be discouraged from doing so? No. Is there anything wrong with it? No.

    THAT is individualism.

    What is NOT individualism is deliberately and consciously patterning ALL your behavior on the opposite sex rather than your own and behaving in an artificial manner as a consequence of that. And that is what you find in most effeminate gay men. They are about anything but expressing their individualism–indeed, they are not individuals at all, but automatons who eschew all things masculine because they believe that their attraction to men makes them unworthy of any masculine activity.

    They try to walk like women, even though their physiology is not designed for such a walk, they try to talk like women, even though their vocal apparatus mitigates against it (ergo the truly gross sound of a deep-throated drag queen), they form friendships only with women (as this boy did)……they even use the female vernacular to refer to themselves and other similar men (she, her, etc.)

    They are psychologically damaged individuals who are living symbols of the oppression of gay men, giving concrete expression to the societal notion that being attracted to another man makes you forfeit any claims at all to masculinity.

    It is pathetic in the year 2011 that some of you continue to revel in your oppression rather than rejecting it–as Diego pointed out earlier, at a certain point in history, such behavior might have served a purpose, but now the only purposes it serves are a) to thwart progress for all of us by reinforcing the lies that have always been told about us, and b) to make the lives of gay men themselves miserable and to bring about the kind of self-destructive behavior we saw in this instance.

    It needs to go–yesterday.

  62. TJ says

    So how will you remedy this, RICK? How will you get these lost souls to see how universally disgusting and self-hating they are? What will you forbid? Where do you draw the line between individualism and “don’t even think about it, you sissy!”? What qualifies as a quirk, and what as an abomination? Will you outlaw earrings? Hair dye? Pink shirts? How soon do we start the training? Do we tell little boys that “real men don’t cry” – because that has been done by those who believe they know what real masculinity is – or will crying be okay as long as you don’t do it like a dreaded girl? Do we forbid all female relationships – no playing with girls, little boy? Do we proscribe the sort of play, or do we allow all sorts just as long as we eschew any hint of behavior that might resemble that of the opposite sex? And do we do this for just the sissy boys, or do we do it for all boys (heck, why do straight boys need to understand girls anyway, when the best relationships are with guys and women are an unpleasant necessity for procreation)? What are the signs to watch out for? Do we forbid listening to certain types of music – I know that Lady Gaga will be at the top of that list – and only allow sanctioned stuff – real guy music like, say, rock? As I asked before, what do YOU, the obvious (albeit self-appointed) expert, sanction, and what do you see as suspect? How do you get people to conform as you see fit?

  63. Rin says

    @TJ

    first, you amaze me.

    Second, I’m realizing that I’m done with arguing with Rick. The divergence in thought is because he is not a parent. So he sees things from either his limited worldview or from a philosophy he has adapted. He has no practical experience in raising children, so he does not really know what he’s talking about.

    He has not watched a family of kids grow with the same parenting skills and be completely different. He hasn’t had the privilege of watching them choose their likes and dislikes at very young ages. He doesn’t realize that kids choose for themselves at a really young age what they like. They are not influenced at 3 by stereotypes. They just like what they like.

    I have one daughter that wears everything pink purple or red–that’s it. No other colors. Loves sparkles and all that, but doesn’t play “girlie” things. She wants to play sports, drive her motorized car around, work on it, and take Kung Fu.

    I have one daughter that wears boys clothing because she likes having tshirts with “stuff on it”. She wanted her hair cut in a short bob so she doesn’t have to fuss with it, but…she likes playing with dolls, drawing, dancing, and singing.

    One is boy crazy and wants to get married to this stupid kid in her 1st grade class, and the other one has boy “friends” but said that boys can wait until college.

    Yes, as kids grow they might see a group that they want to identify with and their natural inclinations may either become more pronounced–or, they may even be subverted, but this is not necessarily wrong. It shouldn’t be denied them.

    We should all be allowed to choose or not choose how we act, self-identify, or who to love.

    He has said more than once that heterosexual men need to loosen or be freed from their strict and rigid ideas on sexuality–and yet would he appreciate women saying the same of him?

    He has said more than once that men are inclined to act a certain way due to chemical and biological factors–and yet, he does not.

    I think that male, female, gender, sexuality are all sort of like the Pirate’s Code–more like guidelines than rules.

    Whatever you feel…is not wrong. It may be wrong for others, but it is right for you.

    I am trying to work out how I feel about transgender issues for this reason–that I worry that people have “feelings” and then see only two options. When I see what they must go through to exercise one of those two options, I worry that society is not doing these individuals a disservice by saying that if you feel X then your body must look like X, instead of allowing people to just fly free.

    This is something I will need to come to terms with because I have traveled all over the world and have decided for myself that nothing good comes from labels, cliques, and boxes.

    I come to this website to read and gain insight on issues that I’m sort of pondering.

    I got mad at Rick yesterday because I saw that little boy and my mother’s heart went out to him. Today, I’m less vitriolic about it.

    Rick’s opinion is his and it’s certainly an interesting one.

  64. TJ says

    RIN – just spent way too much time on a post to you that, for some reason got rejected. Out of time now. One point: I’m really glad that some people I know who were berated as sissies remained defiant, and grew up to be the successful, happy, fabulous and, when it suits them, flamboyant men they are today. Not my style, but my style doesn’t have to be theirs just as theirs need not be mine.

  65. Rick says

    @TJ I pointed out to you in a previous thread that most straight men “instinctively” know what masculinity is; I honestly think most gay men know, too–after all, they worship it relentlessly, don’t they?

    It is not as complicated as you are trying to make it. It really isn’t. If it were, then the vast majority of men all over the world would be struggling with it, but the truth is that they are not.

    As far as how to change gay culture, we need to focus on the young. Provide them with masculine role models and give them ready access to them. One of the problems is that most “out” gay men are the effeminate ones, who are not out in most cases out of conscience but simply because their effeminacy makes them so obvious that it is a foregone conclusion.

    We also need to pressure the media to get rid of characters like the effeminate gays in Modern Family or Glee or Will and Grace and instead provide characters that are strong, masculine gay men in leadership roles in society.

    I have no illusions about how difficult and painful social and cultural change can be–and I certainly believe that beyond a certain age, patterns of behavior are set….so I see no real way of trying to change older people.

    But the young are another matter. I cannot help but think that if this boy had gotten the proper attention when he was struggling with his sexuality, his fate could have been avoided….and the proper attention obviously does not consist of Lady Gaga CDs and “It gets better” videos.

    Thank you for at least being open-minded. I understand the hostility that comes from the fear of people who feel threatened by change, but these discussions are essential if we are to progress.

  66. TJ says

    RICK – humor me. Please enumerate for me the attributes, behaviors, and attitudes we all know instinctively are masculine. Because sometimes, I have been confused. Please let me know the specific decibel, tone, and character of laughter and speech I may exhibit. Show me how to walk, “Tea and Sympathy” style, so that I never offend. Show me the angle of the wrist I must never exceed, and the wave of my hand that must not appear too dramatic. Let me know what a masculine man can and cannot do. I need to know the acceptable limits. Because when I was a kid, I was instinctively attracted to some activities that got me the label of sissy even though at no time was I actively trying to emulate or copy women. I had no desire to be a woman and did not see myself as a girl. I had no concept of “gay” or conscious rejection of masculinity – some things just didn’t interest me (even though many “gender-appropriate” activities did). Instinctively, I threw a baseball how I threw it; despite observing my brothers and friends, I threw like “a girl” (or so I was told). It didn’t help that I was slight of build, blond, and “pretty” (or so I was also told, way too often).

    Joining the choir at school (well, I was invited to join the junior high choir because of my lovely soprano voice – which, incidentally, didn’t completely change until my late 20’s) sealed my fate; that, and being cast in a play, which I mistakenly enjoyed even though plays were for girls and sissies. I was bullied mercilessly. I survived because I had some good friends, both male and female. I also learned my lesson: despite instinct, despite what you are drawn to, act like others and fit in. I eventually quit the choir and stopped any other activity that would make me suspect. I tried desperately to blend in and fade into the background. No effeminate behavior from me, ever again!

    Only, it didn’t work. In high school, I still looked like I was 10. I was still that kid who at one time sang. Despite efforts to offend no one, I wound up one day dragged behind the bleachers during P.E. by a group of boys who called me f*ggot and did still unspeakable things to me. One way or another, I was to pay for being a gender traitor, even though I tried to fit in, even though I didn’t really think I was gay.

    Puberty eventually found me. I grew into a pretty/handsome young man. But I carried around internalized shame because of what happened to me. It must, somehow, have been my fault. In some ways, the pathetic attempt at corrective rape was successful. I stopped being friends with the person I mentioned above to RIN; he was WAY too openly effeminate. I didn’t want any of his sissy stink rubbing off on me – I learned my lesson, and resented the effeminate (even though, instinctively, something about all of this just didn’t seem right, or fair). Years later, when I was older and wiser, I looked him up. Part of me wanted to apologize for rejecting him. How chagrinned I was to find out that he had flourished, is happily partnered for as long as I have been, is also a successful costume designer/college professor. He never apologized for being who he was and is. He never learned the lesson. And is a better man for it.

    I’m older and wiser in many ways. It wasn’t my fault. It wasn’t my fault for liking “girl” things, or for being slight of build and pretty. I’ve even apologized to myself for blaming myself. I never wanted to be a “flamer” and don’t feel I missed out on anything by not camping it up, not referring to me or anyone else as “she,” not affecting over-the-top, exaggerated feminine mannerisms or bitchy, shallow attitudes. But I will not blame the effeminate for being who they are and how they are. They are not the ones, in my opinion, who need to learn a lesson. I will not succumb to the Stockholm Syndrome again.

  67. William May says

    This is so tragic and unnecessary. I blame the parents of the bullies. They teach hate and, some are a a single parent who works all the time and stays busy. They need to take responsibility for their kids and hopefully this will stop.l

  68. says

    I am a straight married man and father of 2, combat veteran. I feel so terrible that people in general do not understand or properly respect an homosexual individual. This poor kid was trying his hardest to stay postive but unfortunately the bullying was overwhelming. My heart and prayers go out to his family.
    I’ve been on the battle field one too many times and I don’t care if your black, white, Gay, Straight as long as you are fighting along my side and wearing that uniform with pride we are all the same. If your are “gay” take a stand and stay strong dont let bullies like Rick tell you different.
    People that bully others are true cowards in disguise, who have flaws and insecurities themselves.Remember just because you are gay does not mean your are not tougher then the man next to your. We are all truly equal with our own hidden talents. Again my deepest emotions to the Rodemeyer family.

  69. says

    RIP Jamey. :(
    Oh how I DO wish he could/would have waited, called the Trevor Project Suicide Hotline and talked to friends and most of all…I wish he would have realized that IT DOES GET BETTER.Look at the repeal of DADT! That’s just the beginning! Jamey will miss so many more victories and milestones…
    People are as diverse as fingerprints or snowflakes. No two are ever exactly alike.
    We ALL, as HUMANS, need to learn to, if not EMBRACE those differences..then at least TOLERATE without the need to taunt and bully.
    And this INCLUDES people who bully even WITHIN the LGBT community! Please feel free to be YOU and allow others the same rights. And those of you who are 18 or older…please just let the kids know that you are there to help to guide them through the emotional minefields.
    As with any cause worth fighting for…you should LEAD, FOLLOW or GET OUT OF THE WAY! Thank you. xoxoxoxox!!!

  70. Chem says

    Its sad for any one to have to take thier own life because of dealing with a world full of hate and lact of understanding we spend far to much time LABLING People then taking the time to understand and see where they are coming from I guess that was require to much time and energy / being small minded and foolish requires no thought or action which most people have become pleased with Reguardless of how you act Masc or Fem If you are comfortable doing so SHOULDNT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO without people having something to SAY ?? People All OVER THE WORLD GET BETTER BE BETTER BECOME BETTER

  71. Derrick from Philly says

    @TJ

    A beautifully honest posting, TJ. You didn’t have to be so generous with painful memories, but we needed to read what you wrote. RICK’s beliefs on this subject (and others) are ridiculous. His arguments on this subject of fem VS butch among Gay men are old and of no value for the 21st Century.

    Thanks again, TJ.

  72. TJ says

    DERRICK – didn’t know people were still posting on this thread until I saw David’s listed on the “recent posts” sidebar. Thank you for your support. I don’t know if I was being so generous; just trying to be real in the hopes of making a point about the difference between “should” and reality. “One size fits all,” fits no one. I read your posts all of the time, and appreciate your perspectives as well as your humor.

  73. Sophia Hatcher says

    I think that it’s messed up that people won’t let other people live their lives like they want to. Nobody’s perfect and nobody has the right to judge.

  74. ingrid says

    I think that they should get the one who are doing the bullying to because i am 14 to i get bully but if they dont do it where it get serious they dont put hands on me but if i see some being bully I WILL HELP no matter what cuz no kid shoild go though anything because of the way the act look or talk .!!

  75. Jumii says

    This is so tragic…its not fair..why must people judge others…They’re not God.!!! This will not be ignored..Please Join the Jamey Rodemeyer Support Group in Facebook.!! We’re trying to raise awareness of the situation.!! bullying has to STOP.!!

  76. Thanatopsis says

    14 years old and already playing for the other team? Shows the ground the gay agenda has gained. First they said they just wanted to be tolerated and accepted. Now they’re shoving it down our throats.

    If you’re going to be gay and advertise it, don’t expect not to be ridiculed. What on earth did you think would happen?

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